Postponing League for the Endurance Season

Do we suspend League during the Endurance Season?


  • Total voters
    7

Kenadian

Staff member
Site Admin
#1
Hello all,

Lately we've had some of the lowest populated grids in our B2O Blancpain Sprint Series League for iRacing since inception. This particular Season I believe has already seen us skip a Friday due to the 24 hours of Spa and run 2 Qualify Races because there wasn't enough people to populate the Main Race.

Several comments addressing reasoning have been raised such as Practicing for Endurance, VLN, and Summer Holidays, all good reasons.

From a personal standpoint I'm neutral on whether we continue but in saying that if I'm footing the bill for a minimum of 3 Sessions I want to see cars on track. Also I'm sure it's boring as hell to tune in on Twitch and see nothing, viewers have the rest of the week to see that on my Channel lol.

I'll add a Poll to this but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thank you.
 
#2
Makes sense to suspend it for now. I can't see any reason why the coming weeks would suddenly be more populated, unless it's a very popular track.

We have to keep in mind that it might be difficult to start this back up again later since it won't be a regular thing anymore for people.
 
#3
I see how it is, I give you boys a taste of the fury at Brands Hatch in the Macca (of course I am referring to the blazing start and the turn 1 close visual inspection of said outside retaining walls) and everyone gets scared and bails on the season. HAHAHAHA

In all seriousness, I think postponing until after summer would be a wise decision, just not worth it to have 6 cars on track especially when I am counted as one of the six. Anyone that likes this group and enjoys their time spent with said group will be back to the league and hopefully with strong participation. I know over the last week I have driven more than I have in any other week since I started iRacing in December and it was with the intent to get up to a more competitive pace with you lot so that being said I am going nowhere and look forward to the start of the next league season. If by chance we start again and have low turn out then we can address other options at that time but I feel people will be back.
 

Kenadian

Staff member
Site Admin
#5
Im sorry,I had some races in last few weeks, different cars so I couldn't race in B2O
No need to apologize at all @SavreticD.

Expecting the League to be populated week in and week out with a healthy grid was a great idea but maybe not yet feasible for a Community of our size. Even though we have a fair amount of iRacers here many of us have different interests and should not feel obligated 48 Fridays out of the year.

I know it's tough for me to do so I can imagine it being challenging for others.

I think it's best we table the League until we have a bit larger audience here and perhaps look at either reviving it or even creating another that we can populate more.
 
#6
I don't participate in this league, so can't say much, but postponing it to focus on the endurance season makes sense. It'll avoid diluting the participation and show the viewers something different: team racing/endurance vs solo sprint, etc.
 

Deb

Moderator
#7
With Endurance season winding down, I think we have a couple of months in the winter where we could do league, although the question of what we want to do. I was thinking about this last night and I know I would like to learn the LMP1. What about doing the LMP1 on various tracks for league so folks can learn it and be ready for the next endurance season? Maybe starting after Petit Le Mans.
 
#8
With Endurance season winding down, I think we have a couple of months in the winter where we could do league, although the question of what we want to do. I was thinking about this last night and I know I would like to learn the LMP1. What about doing the LMP1 on various tracks for league so folks can learn it and be ready for the next endurance season? Maybe starting after Petit Le Mans.
This I think is a great Idea, I purchased the Audi a couple weeks back and have driven it once at LeMan and quickly went back to the Porsche RSR because I was way out of my comfort zone, as I start the grind to finally start working my licences up I would like to start preparing for next seasons Endurance Races so this would be a great opportunity to learn a new car.
 

Kenadian

Staff member
Site Admin
#9
For my purposes I think it's in our best interests to have a B2O Drivers Meeting in TS and spitball this.

The reason is that a LMP1 League may suit our purposes now but going forward may not be the best idea. As new content comes out people have a way of deciding what they want to drive and these tastes continually change. Essentially LMP1 may be a great idea today but 3 - 6 months from now, not so much.

Also, in order for a League to be fun it needs to be competitive at all levels which ours has never been. We've taken great strides to keep the cars as close for as long as possible but even then the fast drive away and the slower almost always run laps by themselves.

Lastly, whatever we decide needs to be something with long term connotations because we just won't attract and hold new Drivers if we're continually changing it up.

...or maybe we do, I don't know but it should be discussed first.

So, how do you all feel about a Week 13 Drivers Meeting to spitball the future of League at B2O? I can also query my viewers when streaming to see if any other ideas come forth.
 

Deb

Moderator
#12
Thats two weeks from today right Ken? Sounds like a good plan to me.
I agree, sounds good.

Just FYI, I wasn't thinking the LMP1 league would be something permanent, just for the interim from after Petit Le Mans until December or something like that, so only 3 months.

I think we will always have an issue on faster and slower drivers since we have such a diverse group. Personally, it doesn't bother me. I am usually one of the folks kind of driving around by myself after all the fast folks pass me and, really, it is fine.
 
#14
I agree, sounds good.

Just FYI, I wasn't thinking the LMP1 league would be something permanent, just for the interim from after Petit Le Mans until December or something like that, so only 3 months.

I think we will always have an issue on faster and slower drivers since we have such a diverse group. Personally, it doesn't bother me. I am usually one of the folks kind of driving around by myself after all the fast folks pass me and, really, it is fine.
You are kidding right Deb? I could not catch you the other night at the ring to save my life, wait a minute, I am bottom of the barrel slow so never mind, HAHAHAHA
 
#16
Does iRacing have a ballast system? I know when we play Assetto Corsa we use fuel to balance things out and it works great.

For example:

5 drivers. A, B, C, D and E.

Driver A is consistently faster by roughly 1.5 seconds a lap around Brands Hatch GP.

Drivers B and C are all roughly 1.5 seconds a lap slower than driver A, but half a second faster than drivers D and E.

The times are calculated by us using a practice session, then qualifying before the race. Same sequence each time we change car and/or track.

Now, if left like this for the race, in a very short space of time all five drivers are going to spread out and the inevitability of a spread field creeps in... ugh. Ok for endurance racing, not so great for sprint racing (yawn).

Using the ballast method Driver A would take on 60 litres of fuel, drivers B and C take 40 litres and drivers D and E 30 litres (which can be adjusted as you see fit).

This would keep the drivers within spiting distance of each other and lead to very close, fun racing despite obvious differences in pace. We have tested this system in Assetto Corsa, leading to some very close racing no matter the car and track combo as you are giving extra weight to the naturally faster drivers and less to the naturally slower ones.

Just an idea for the future maybe, as I know it works for us in Assetto Corsa really, really well.
 

Deb

Moderator
#17
That
Does iRacing have a ballast system? I know when we play Assetto Corsa we use fuel to balance things out and it works great.

For example:

5 drivers. A, B, C, D and E.

Driver A is consistently faster by roughly 1.5 seconds a lap around Brands Hatch GP.

Drivers B and C are all roughly 1.5 seconds a lap slower than driver A, but half a second faster than drivers D and E.

The times are calculated by us using a practice session, then qualifying before the race. Same sequence each time we change car and/or track.

Now, if left like this for the race, in a very short space of time all five drivers are going to spread out and the inevitability of a spread field creeps in... ugh. Ok for endurance racing, not so great for sprint racing (yawn).

Using the ballast method Driver A would take on 60 litres of fuel, drivers B and C take 40 litres and drivers D and E 30 litres (which can be adjusted as you see fit).

This would keep the drivers within spiting distance of each other and lead to very close, fun racing despite obvious differences in pace. We have tested this system in Assetto Corsa, leading to some very close racing no matter the car and track combo as you are giving extra weight to the naturally faster drivers and less to the naturally slower ones.

Just an idea for the future maybe, as I know it works for us in Assetto Corsa really, really well.
That is really interesting. I don't know if there is any way to do that in iRacing, although we could do it manually based on qualifying times.
 
#18
Although you can change the actual weight of the car and of course the fuel for each GT3 car, this would turn into a very long process for the poor soul who is setting up the race after qually.

The other problem with adding or taking away fuel with a 50 minute race is that the iracing GT3 cars at most tracks use almost a whole tank of fuel ( and come very close to running out at flat out tracks like monza and daytona), so as we can't add more than a full tank for the fastest cars we would have to remove fuel for the slower ones. They would not make it to the end of the race without taking on more fuel which would mean a pit stop for fuel which we don't currently have for the slower people.

The other issue with changing the weight is the GT3 cars are very sensitive to weight change on a car by car basis, some cars take a little performance hit while others are ruined, iRacing themselves seem to have enough trouble doing the GT3 BoP. messing with the weights is a time consuming plan which can make some of the cars quite unpleasant to drive.

Was this not tried before as well to try to get the GT1 cars to race with the GT3 in league and after many many hours turned out not to be feasible? now take ten drivers driving 5-6 different cars at different paces and between qually and a race try to work out how much extra weight to add to Denis's Mercedes ( ruining the setup he has taken an hour to tweak) vs how much weight to remove from my BMW ( which is now going to pit for fuel every 3 laps due to the gap between our lap times )

Mid session BoP would be extremely difficult :)
 
#19
Well the fuel issue would be negated if you can change the weight of the car in iRacing using ballast, and as for the sensitivity to weight change then that would just be an additional challenge for the faster drivers which they should be up to as they are inherently at a higher skill level.

The other solution to the challenges you raised would be to run fixed setup (or at least restricted setup changes like gearing only etc. I know some people lose their minds if they have to run a fixed setup lol), problem solved. I'm coming at this from an angle of suggesting things to close the gap so you can all have close racing like we do in Assetto Corsa lap after lap.

It works for the BTCC (really, really well and fuss free) and many other disciplines so there's no reason at all that I can see that it wouldn't work for your league setup and it's drivers. It would just take effort.

I'm not having a pop there Net, you know me, just to clarify for others, all I'm saying is yes, it will be extra effort, but isn't it worth considering ideas out of the box at least? Surely it must be worth at least a trying some changes to get closer racing going on over full distance?

At the end of the day I don't drive in the league any more, just trying to offer some ideas that are from an outsider looking in :)

I'm sure you clever chaps and chapettes can discuss it when you have your meeting, ballast works in real life in multiple race series in multiple configurations, it's just a case of if you can make it work in iRacing. If you all can, then you will have much closer racing (which is more fun and might keep people interested and turning up) rather than practice for ages, qualify, then all see each other for a few laps and boom you're all spread out and basically hotlapping for 40+ minutes until the chequered flag.

At the very least it's stimulated discussion which is always a good thing ;)
 

Deb

Moderator
#20
If the primary goal is to do more racing where cars aren't so spread out, another solution is multiclass, for instance GTEs and GT3s. People can pick what they want to drive. If they are very fast and racecraft is important, GT3, if not so fast and racecraft is important, GTE. But left up to each person to decide what they want to do. Some may prefer one over the other based on other criteria as official series or particular race they are participating in.

It might be fun to try it one night in a hosted session and see how it works. It might require changing up the standings system, but that could be easily handled by applying a handicap to the GTE drivers, for example, on a specific track, the GTE drivers get, let's say a 2 second penalty, just for the purposes of determining standings, if folks are concerned about standings. I know for me, that is of the least importance and more important is the practice on different tracks and the camaraderie.
 
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