2022 Band of Others Endurance Livery

[Kenadian]

Hello all,

I'm interested in a redesign of our current Band of Others Endurance Livery for iRacing and have been working on a proposed new look for a while now.

After skinning a whole lotta cars at this point the issues with the current design needed to be addressed as well. There were a few cars that were so difficult to work within our existing design they took 20+ hours to skin with a few taking over 30 hours.

This was in large part due to the Hood/Roof/Tail striping and Door to Quarter Panel B2O Logo's.

Lastly, I hoped to inject a bit more color in the car but continue with the dark rear as I think it looks the best and is easiest to skin and walk away from. The rear is just one area of the car where I typically think of last and oftentimes spend too much time on it especially after spending too much time on the remainder of the livery.

In some areas I realized the preceding but failed in others mostly because the car just looked boring.

Also, I tried other car colors such as white, silver, orange, green, and 5 or 6 different blues but could not achieve as satisfying a result as deep red provided. I also like the meaning of red as I believe it encapsulates our Endurance Program, "Red is the color of energy, passion and action. The color red is a warm and positive color associated with our most physical needs and our will to survive. Red is energizing, it excites the emotions and motivates us to take action."

Also, I typically use blues, teals, and such on Websites as they're more professional or even clinical hence the color theme behind Lifesupporters.com.

So the color palette of Red and Black was to remain but most everything else changed.

To start, the side B2O is big and impossible to place especially when multi-panels are present. Some cars in iRacing have up to 4 overlapping panels on the side of a car and they're near impossible to line up much of the time.

I still want to retain B2O on the side of the car as removal leaves the livery a bit baron. So for this I created a Custom Font B2O as follows:

Also, colors have been reversed as the Hood, Roof and Trunk area are now Black outlined with red striping that widens as it follows the length of the car. Now the grille, nose or what have you is always incorporated into this striping which I think makes the car look a bit more aggressive.

The cool thing about this stripe is it's only difficult in the Hood and sometimes a bit on the trunk but it's much easier than previous. I also no longer have to consistently warp, space and hack two different shades of red per panel. This is especially troublesome given the amount of air dams and hood lines we seen in modern racecars.

This one change saves a boat load of time!

I've also added white to the color scheme which is only used around front lights and side air dams (mostly).

The last issue was to transition cleanly between the red front and black rear of the car.

Initially I did so with red ending rear door and remainder of car in black but it was too jarring and really didn't look all that great. My answer to this was to add a gradation between the two which isn't perfect and is still a work in progress due to banding.

The addition of noise has cancelled much of this effect however more work may need to be done.

This one effect added back in complexity and time required to look right but it provides the nicest aesthetic so far.

Anyway, without further adieu:

 

[Kenadian]

A few other items of note:

• Spec maps layer added
• Xitens, Logitech and Track IR sponsors removed
• Text flattened to mitigate unevenness in lettering
• B2O removed from roof

Please note, Driver names for Endurance will look slightly chrome as they will not be added to the spec map layer.

Lastly, vehicles will be skinned on an "as needed" basis. Lesser used vehicles such as HPD, KIA, Z4, Ruf, Ford GT not likely to transition.

 

[Deb]

I think it looks amazing!!!! Love the B2O I think there could be more contrast to make it stand out more, but maybe it does IRL. What if it was in a metallic like gold or pewter?

Fantastic job!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kenadian]

I think it looks amazing!!!! Love the B2O I think there could be more contrast to make it stand out more, but maybe it does IRL. What if it was in a metallic like gold or pewter?

Fantastic job!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the feedback @Deb.

I'll try coloring different and see if that works.

I've also thought about spacing the letters a bit more while compressing the top of the B making the 2 larger and more distinct.

I'll mess around with it and post some options shortly.

 

[Daunt]

Hey Ken I think you have got the right idea - in terms of making it stand out and more aggressive. One thing I'm surprised about is adding kind of "car specific" details like the lines that follow it. It does add to the look no doubt but as I'm sure you're aware they add tremendously to the time (in terms of making other car paints like a beautiful R8 ) . I think if you were to make them a bit more generic you might lose a little bit of that coolness to it but gain a lot of time in conversion of paints that would help, and I think if you do the stripes and such right it would still look very good. I guess it all depends on the number of schemes you ultimate need / how much you want to tailor it to the car.

To me the amount of work you put into making those stripes shows- from the inlet, lights and the body curves it is incredible. I think what also might help all the stripes are a tertiary color. I think they'd stand out more and look even better if you pick the right color. The stripe at the bottom grill is - not lost but just doesn't stand out enough to me. It took me a bit of looking over to notice some of the white striping that's on the grill.

I really especially like the roof lines and the line that comes back down the rear pillar. The contrast there on that stripe is great.

Overall I think what isn't working for me is the gradient. I know it's been a staple for years and years at B2O but I think it just does not make the livery stand out enough. I've never been a fan of it so def more of my opinion but I don't think it works well at the whole car level- maybe less gradual gradients on parts of the car could work but I never cared for them.

I think the new B2O is again the right direction- I like the idea of making it racier 100%. I think the font is too thin though and the 2 gets lost. I liked the idea of using the B in some way for the 2 but overall I chewed on this one for a bit and I can't figure out a good way to do it. Problem is it's too small and even looks subscript so it comes out looking B₂O which obviously isn't what you're going after.

I was trying to think of something that could make use of negative space for the 2 in a clever way but again I failed lol. Think of this logo:

Anyway- yeah I think you need to up the thickness to make it stand out on the car. Something brushy. Here's a quick idea:

A lot of this is just my personal opinion. I like paints that stand out in a big way. I personally would like to see your hard work in all the striping showcased much more and I think that would be best on display if the car was a flat color (no gradient). I would really like to see a version of just all black and use the reds for the roof, the B2O and all the striping and see how it looks.

Hope this helps. Just my constructive criticism- Don't take it too harshly because I think you do a great job and this is no exception. I can see the great work in it and the detail and I think it should be brought to the forefront. Like I said about the rear pillar, the contrast there really makes that stripe stand out on the black. I'd like to see more of that I think to make the other aggressive stripe pop.

 

[Kenadian]

Thanks for taking time to respond with your thoughts Kyle, much appreciated.

I do understand your points and toiled similar getting to this point but ultimately ended up where I am, I'll explain my reasoning.

Hey Ken I think you have got the right idea - in terms of making it stand out and more aggressive. One thing I'm surprised about is adding kind of "car specific" details like the lines that follow it. It does add to the look no doubt but as I'm sure you're aware they add tremendously to the time (in terms of making other car paints like a beautiful R8 ) . I think if you were to make them a bit more generic you might lose a little bit of that coolness to it but gain a lot of time in conversion of paints that would help, and I think if you do the stripes and such right it would still look very good. I guess it all depends on the number of schemes you ultimate need / how much you want to tailor it to the car.

Ultimately I'll need our existing Endurance Library and probably anything new that iRacing comes up with in the future that runs in Endurance. At last count I've painted 28 different vehicles so we'll eventually end up somewhere close to this figure.

In creating a Livery I've had to weigh this as not all vehicles are the same. I've had some Endurance Liveries take 10 - 15 hours to produce with others, such as the LMP's, taking well over 30 hours to complete.

This is just an unacceptable amount of time and heavily influences what you now see.

The one issue I do have is the Endurance Livery we've been running for years is a compromise, a time consuming compromise that I just no longer find acceptable. It looks dated to me and features such as red on red striping and large B2O are the principle offenders.

I had to find ways to save time here as I've had hoods alone take me well over 5 hours to complete.

I'm also not a fan of how generic it looks as nothing really discerns one car from the other. I want a little car specific uniqueness which is why I opted for the additions.

There's no question they take time some to create however it pales comparatively to the time I spend on the current Livery so it's a net positive.

I also believe they make the car look more aggressive which is what I want.

To me the amount of work you put into making those stripes shows- from the inlet, lights and the body curves it is incredible. I think what also might help all the stripes are a tertiary color. I think they'd stand out more and look even better if you pick the right color. The stripe at the bottom grill is - not lost but just doesn't stand out enough to me. It took me a bit of looking over to notice some of the white striping that's on the grill.

I really especially like the roof lines and the line that comes back down the rear pillar. The contrast there on that stripe is great.

I agree but couldn't settle on a color I liked.

I still mess with it though and if I land on a color I like I'll propose it at a later date.

Overall I think what isn't working for me is the gradient. I know it's been a staple for years and years at B2O but I think it just does not make the livery stand out enough. I've never been a fan of it so def more of my opinion but I don't think it works well at the whole car level- maybe less gradual gradients on parts of the car could work but I never cared for them.

You'll have to refresh my memory here as I don't remember us ever using a gradient? iRacing has never been good at rendering them, still isn't really, so I can't remember ever using one.

Back in the day we had a series of lines that got thicker toward the rear of the car but that's all I can recall from the past.

The current Red on Black Livery we've been using for years has no gradation.

I think the new B2O is again the right direction- I like the idea of making it racier 100%. I think the font is too thin though and the 2 gets lost. I liked the idea of using the B in some way for the 2 but overall I chewed on this one for a bit and I can't figure out a good way to do it. Problem is it's too small and even looks subscript so it comes out looking B₂O which obviously isn't what you're going after.

I was trying to think of something that could make use of negative space for the 2 in a clever way but again I failed lol. Think of this logo:

Anyway- yeah I think you need to up the thickness to make it stand out on the car. Something brushy. Here's a quick idea:
View attachment 5284

Stylistically this is where we disagree.

It took me a number of months to finally create the custom B2O and for a number of reasons I've settled on what you currently see.

I think it looks racey, doesn't require a lot of manipulation, keeps faithful to the current and is FINALLY a detail rather than a spectacle.

Originally the large B2O we currently use was to be car colored but shaded slightly differently. Unfortunately it was too subtle and easy to miss.

When I settled on the Red on Black Endurance Livery you all know, I just embraced a loud and prominent B2O on the side but only because it worked on that theme.

In truth I don't really like it and remain uncertain as to whether I ever did?

I also think some may not understand the #2 is not meant to be treated as equal in the B2O logo. Its only purpose is to not use BOO as our abbreviation because that just plain sounds silly to me. To me Band and Others are the keywords, of is a preposition meaning we all (Band) are part of the group (Others).

This is why "of" has been treated as more of a meaningless middle word rather than a main idea or concept, if this makes any sense.

In other words I treat the word of like Google does in SEO, it's pretty much meaningless.

Since the beginning I've never treated the 2 equally.

I settled with the above as it simply abbreviated the original Band of Others Logo.

...but I just don't like dealing with it anymore. It's too big and a pain to make look good in iRacing especially when tiling over multiple body panels.

The current B2O, while dainty comparatively, requires very little tweaking on the 3 cars I've skinned to date.

I understand your liking of the brush script as I too like it however it's more of the same problem just in a different font style.

A lot of this is just my personal opinion. I like paints that stand out in a big way. I personally would like to see your hard work in all the striping showcased much more and I think that would be best on display if the car was a flat color (no gradient). I would really like to see a version of just all black and use the reds for the roof, the B2O and all the striping and see how it looks.

I knew the gradient wouldn't make everyone happy but it's inclusion is necessary to solve a few problems.

I wanted color in the car this time around with the horizontal surfaces (hood, roof, trunk) black. I also wanted the black to swallow the grille and disappear at the rear.

The black is meant to transition from detail to envelope the car at rear wheel. This meant a transition of some description on the side of the car but what to use?

Initially I went from red to black (without gradient) behind the door but just didn't like the look of it.

I'm vehemently opposed to stripes as I don't like the look of them so much and we've used them in the past.

I wanted something new, easy to use with the ability to cover quickly cover up issues be them mine or iRacings.

The gradient fits this purpose perfectly, at least for me.

Hope this helps. Just my constructive criticism- Don't take it too harshly because I think you do a great job and this is no exception. I can see the great work in it and the detail and I think it should be brought to the forefront. Like I said about the rear pillar, the contrast there really makes that stripe stand out on the black. I'd like to see more of that I think to make the other aggressive stripe pop.

Appreciate your feedback as always, thanks Kyle.

 

[Daunt]

A few things to finally put into words after your post took all weekend to read lol.

-When I say gradient, I mean to color change from one to another. In this car's case, it's the red to black. I think you lose too many details because you really have to dance around what color to use when / where. I'd like to see an all black version with all your aggressive striping and details in red. Or vice versa. Or maybe even an extremely dark red, like what color is on the door, all throughout and use bright red lines. Just to compare. No idea how difficult that would be, depending on how you're building the templates.

-Also when I say stripes its a pretty generic term. Not really just a racing stripe down the middle, but just any lines on the car really, as opposed to thicker shapes, etc in a design. Not sure if you took one of the things i said about striping wrong or something.

-I never said the 2 ever was meant to be treated equal, I just was pointing out that when you do that, and make it subscript it looks more like B₂O which isn't even BOO, it's BBO. Then again I hate chemistry so who cares. lol. Just saying I'd read it different if it was subscript, because to me it would look more like B₂O.

-If I showed that BMW rear quarterpanel to anyone there's no way they could glean that they're looking at B2O. Anyone not familiar with it would have no idea what it is or what its saying. That's my main problem with it. Maybe that's not a big deal for an iRacing paint scheme in the grand scheme of things but my logo design experience tells me it should be handled differently.

I don't disagree with you on the old B2O. I don't think either of the Band of Others logos really are suited for a racing team. That's why I made that Band of Others Racing logo just to throw something together but yeah they don't scream racing/speed etc.

I showed this image to two of my friends and they couldn't figure it out. They saw a B, an O, maybe a 30, BO. One of them suggested the logo (After I showed them) could even be read as 1320 lol. Neither of them even noticed the 2- which I said before- the 2 gets lost. After I showed the other just the logo he still couldn't figure it out and read it as "130" or still just BO.

Overall we are playing iracing and it's not like the logo is recognizable to anyone anyway so maybe it's just a case of "it's what we like who cares". So really don't think too much on it.

Take this all with a grain of salt- I'm sharing my background in logo design but it's all sprinkled in with opinion and such as well.

 

[Daunt]

I thought about this a little bit more and a few more things:

First I played around with some B2O concepts. None of which I particularly care for. Bear in mind they're quick concepts so no where near what a finished logo would be. Just merely directional concepts, especially playing with negative space as I mentioned earlier. Just made these to mess around

Second, my epiphany was that I think what the B2O branding needs more is a logomark that goes with (or sometimes without) the word logos. An accompanying logo to encapsulate the community would help a lot, especially in this case where you're trying to put something on the side of the car because it felt barren.

Here's some random logos of gaming communities I found on the interwebs...

They all have a logo mark in addition to their words. You could easily use the logomark by itself in some instances and the side of that fender would be a good case (especially when the full logo Band of Others is right there)

What I'd use for this I have not a clue. I would imagine something generic because we're a gaming community and not specifically a racing team, or a flight squadron etc.

I kinda like the idea of using a grenade again. I understand why the community name changed back when, but I don't think it's bad as a callback to simply use a grenade icon logo. I like the idea of a grenade as well because it is just as dangerous to the person throwing as it is the target. So really encapsulates our plebness.

Toyota's logo is a subtle clue to their history as originally a sewing company. And there's a common myth that the BMW logo is a nod to their past with regards to airplane propellers. I think a lot of logos offer little callbacks like that to acknowledge their past.

 

[Kenadian]

I apricate your work on this but everything you're showing me is going to panel exactly the same as the current B2O does. This means up to 4 panel alignment depending on vehicle being skinned, very cumbersome and time consuming.

You've no idea how much time this represents over a library of vehicles and I'm simply tired of doing it. We're talking about my time here and the hundreds of hours I put into skinning. I have to like what I'm doing to make it worthwhile and I very much like what I'm doing currently.

Both Community Gamer and Video Gamer Icons are fine but not legible if they're abbreviations of the name they represent. They're logos that on their own are meaningless.

Unless you can show me something not far off what I have that remains compact yet is more legible than current I won't be changing, sorry.

I'm using it because I like it very much, it's racey and very easy to skin which is the reason behind the concept.

...plus I don't like any of the options shown.

Put them on the side of a car and they won't be all that legible either.

I also do not want to go back to the grenade. It was fine for Fragtard as we had Frag in the name so it made sense and looked great but doesn't fit for Band of Others.

Band of Others is in iRacing, American/Euro Truck Simulator and DCS so the grenade won't fit in any of them.

 

[Daunt]

This is your project and your time bud. Don't waste any time on what you hate. I am only giving opinion and my professional design advice. Do with it what you will. No need to apologize for using what you want.

But if the side panel isn't readable, what's the point?

All logos on their own are meaningless that's why brand identity is important. Is Craig's face on a gear meaningful on its own? Not in the slightest. But he's grown his brand among the community. I know for a fact you would see that face logo, with those colors and you would know what it is.

The name band of others is obviously a play on the tv show and if a grenade doesn't belong with that I don't know what does. But the name doesn't really "belong" as a team name any more than a grenade logo.

At the end of the day, I'm not trying to convince you to do something specific, or change. I tried to refrain from giving my own examples because I don't have anything worth while and I spent fifteen minutes total on those concepts. I've thought about it but I feel painted into a corner with the Band of Others stuff.

As I said doing anything other than something you love is stupid, especially for a time consuming hobby.