Wood War Alpha (ArmA 3 Mission Testing)

Kenadian

Staff member
Site Admin
Hey guys and gals, I'm very close to releasing a short mission for the ArmA3 Alpha currently titled "Wood War" (working title).

I've addressed a number of bugs noticed by both Wapwap and myself and would love some more feedback on the latest build of the game.

There are a few elements that still need some work prior to releasing Alpha so I should have it in a playable state within the next few weeks.

A few questions though to help me cater the mission more to your liking:
  1. How many players do you want to see in final release, 10, 15, 20+ player count?
  2. How long would you like the mission to last, 15, 30, 45+ minutes?
  3. Do you prefer missions where there are enemy vehicles?
  4. Do you like to see civilians in cities?
I can't say when the above will be implemented as it will depend on complexity of adding said elements.

Please note, I never allow for vehicle usage in Missions with AI in them. The reason is that there's always one pubbie knucklehead who likes to go around running over people and it's not always AI who's being targeted.

The first run of this Mission will be held on a Fragtard Community Playday.
 
For around here, 8-15 person Co-op. Anything under an hour is fine, but I would stress setup to action and resolution, not just endless AI. NME vehicles are fun, makes you learn how to handle them, and I personally prefer not to have Civvies in urban environments, but maybe that could be a different version with a civilian kill limit.
 

Leimboy

Hardcore
I agree with Ogami.
Regarding having vehicles or not I think that depends on the situation. I can do without if they aren't necessary for the mission goals or for travel over great distances. The same thing with civilians, it depends on the situation and there should be some sort of penalty for killing civilians if they are included.
I tend to like smaller missions with clearly defined goals that gives you multiple paths to solve the goal(s).
Randomness is also much appreciated as it makes the mission fresh and fun even if you play it more than once.
 

Kenadian

Staff member
Site Admin
Great suggestions guys, thanks!

Just to clarify a few points...

...I typically don't include vehicles simply because you spawn in virtually on top of the action. In the cases where you don't spawn in on the action, you usually spawn into a vehicle and are either driven or flown to the objective.

I can't speak toward endless AI as their not endless but they are plentiful. I operate on a "leapfrog basis" so if you can move the line forward the AI is forced backward which always affects their situation. The whole idea is that you have to work to push them back and change the parameters of the conflict otherwise it could go on indefinitely.

Most of my missions (actually all of them) have a conflict in motion or you are in transit to a rally point when you join in. There's nothing worse than running for ages and doing nothing so I weed that out whenever possible.

As the line moves forward, the player respawn moves forward as well however I do not allow markers to be contested meaning that once and area is cleared it's considered clear regardless of enemy AI presence.

Enemy AI is controlled completely dynamically so they can re-occupy a cleared zone in small numbers. This keeps your allies busy, adds atmosphere and means you can't just carelessly run around without taking a bullet in the skull.

I like missions where players and player count make a difference in the end result but not so much so that the war is over in minutes. The enemy AI scales up for every 2 players that connect and since the enemy is scaled up it wouldn't make sense if the allies weren't scaled up as well but at a lesser percentage.

I do understand your point on including Civilians however and see no need to add them to this mission as there just isn't a good reason for them to be around. In later missions I may include them a bit because an urban area should have people but once bullets start flying they'll be scripted to occupy buildings and cower in corners.
 

Leimboy

Hardcore
This sounds really promising Duke! Looking forward to test it some day ;)

If the setting for the mission is that we are in a warzone I would suggest that you don't include the civilians. The civilians will have fled the area if they knew a big battle was coming their way (except for the always present stubborn old man/woman of course ;)).

It also sounds like this is an infantry operation so I would like having no vehicles, except for maybe unarmed transports (if necessary), present. Armed vehicles tend to shift the balance heavily to the side/group that have it against those who don't. An option could be having AI controllable armed vehicles only, but I'm not a particular big fan of that.

I really like the idea of pushing spawnpoints and scaling the conflict with number of players :D

Regarding AI, plentiful is MUCH better than endless!

I've been lucky enough to play one of your earlier missions (was it in ARMA1?) and the "feel" of an ongoing conflict in that one was absolutely great. I'm very curious about this one.
 

Kenadian

Staff member
Site Admin
I've been lucky enough to play one of your earlier missions (was it in ARMA1?) and the "feel" of an ongoing conflict in that one was absolutely great. I'm very curious about this one.
Ya that would have been right toward the end of ArmAI and it was to be ported over to ArmAII but unfortunately the terrain, situation, AI integration, etc., never translated well to the newer title so I was forced to scrap it.

That particular mission took well over 200 hours to put together however was a perfect example of how my missions end up. They always appear small scale initially but so much is done in the way of attack/counter-attack that a conflict can last up to and including 4 hours if I choose to structure it that way.

That mission was also heavily based on enemy AI vehicular combat. There were tanks, BMP's, jeeps with mounted machine guns and transport helicopters paradropping enemy AI on top of the BLUFOR line.

Side suburbs were utilized to dynamically spawn enemy armor based off random conditionals set by BLUFOR. Most were scripted statically but with the triggers being placed in the manner they were, everything appeared dynamic because it never happened in the same manner twice.

I added BLUFOR tank AI to combat some balance issues and the effect was mesmerizing. I remember being pinned down by a BMP only to see it explode from an ally tank shell that flew mere yards above my head, awesome!

Remember the "no mans land" that you had to traverse through dynamic artillery drops? I don't remember one time being forced out there and not having my heart in my throat.

I'll be the first to admit that I use scripting in my missions but it's always set off a number of base conditionals that must be met for the trigger to activate. Since the ArmA Series is an unscripted Sandbox, the triggers never trip in the same manner giving the appearance of variation to a static event. It sounds ridiculous but it works fantastic!

What made that mission so great was you never saw the enemy AI spawn and that is always the focus. I hate seeing AI spawn in front of me so I hide it well in an area that's always out of reach to the player. As the line moves forward the enemy spawn system falls back so they can spawn out of site and reinforce their line.

In this case I could only spawn them for a short while in the city but once BLUFOR was detected within city limits I could do it no longer for fear a player seeing AI suddenly appear out of thin air. This is why helicopters were used to paradrop AI as I could safely spawn them on a remote island into a vehicle that was either landed or already on the move.

I'll always work this way but must admit that Wasteland opened my eyes to some possibilities I hadn't previously considered. The one direction I will be looking toward is dynamic spawn of these scripted triggers. I hope to eventually structure them in a way where they can spawn in one or perhaps, multiple, concurrent locations based off variable percentage of probabilities. This means you may or may not see these triggers activate and the amount you see will always vary.

That's quite far down the road though.

The biggest issue I face in my missions though is testing because I just can't test them alone. I need variable amounts of human soldiers to help me out so I can get scale right from the beginning.

It is exceptionally difficult to scale back a large scale conflict based off player count once all the groundwork has been done. I need to get this right from a very early stage in the build so if you guys are willing, I'd love to try it.

Now the other HUGE issue is building from the end forward. You simply cannot test in any other manner as it represents a huge amount of time that people just don't have.

There are 3 acts in every one of my missions, the end, the conflict and the start. Each needs to work for the mission to feel satisfying so I need to break them up in this regard.

The start and end sound easy but conflict is also very simple to test. I typically test spawn points and reinforce points as well as AI pathfinding and other variables. The AI is often scaled way down to 1 person or unarmed squads and the vehicles usually are stripped of ammo.

My ArmAII Mission Debugging Video on YouTube gives you a very good idea of how the conflict is in fact now debugged.

[video=youtube;wkyEjfkyE1g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkyEjfkyE1g[/video]

I have broken conflict down a bit as I like to test vehicles and infantry separately in the beginning prior to integration. I find it helps me combat the pathfinding issues all that much faster as they are always the most difficult to address.

Lastly, I've given this a lot of thought and want to structure this particular mission as modules within a larger mission as outlined above. This way I can use them in multiple scenarios without a lot of tweaking and create multiple scenarios regardless of geography (which killed me in ArmAI and II).

Imagine a dynamically player scaled version of that ArmAI Mission now fought on a city to city basis across the entire island.

That's where I ultimately want to end up. I want a 24 - 240 hour conflict that once complete sees the island in complete ruin.

What if I kicked it up a notch and one day decided to tackle database integration and a save system that allows you to maintain your character should you reach a safe zone?

The possibilities are endless provided the base modular system works which is what we'll be testing.
 

Wotan

Hardcore
What if I kicked it up a notch and one day decided to tackle database integration and a save system that allows you to maintain your character should you reach a safe zone?
If you succeed, the world would never be the same again. :icon_cheesygrin:

How about finishing this mission first and setting a date we all come together and play it?
 

Kenadian

Staff member
Site Admin
If you succeed, the world would never be the same again. :icon_cheesygrin:

How about finishing this mission first and setting a date we all come together and play it?
If I finish it then scaling will be horribly difficult. I need to test the 3 elements separately and then marry them for full mission testing.

It's exceptionally easy to add but horribly difficult to subtract.
 

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