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Is Wolfgaming finally done?
- Thread starter Kitlope
- Start date
mondo
Hardcore
I think to be honest we'll have to agree to disagree. I remember it more as a series of events which lead to a conclusion, rather than 1 action which had immediate consequences.
What I think needs to be remembered is, despite what people think, just before Rob and Joe came back, it was the first time ever that WGN was a self sufficient community. The original idea was that it paid for itself. So why you might think it was to far gone, it was actually reaching one of its original goals. It paid for itself, we could buy servers, not just 1 or 2 but could afford 3 or 4 a month, genuine good quality servers with a ton of slots.
Things at that stage were looking up in some respects, the real problem was we hated our server provider, wolfservers, because the service was poor and we couldn't switch and we didn't have a community binding game and we had lost that critical mass of players to keep things going in respect to server numbers.
Even now, unless you're in a clan its really hard to populate a server and keep it going. Hydra really was an anomaly and the WGN FH server only existed because we could afford a more powerful box than anyone else. It however was a badly programmed POS and lagged like it was going out of fashion no matter how much horse power was behind it.
What I think needs to be remembered is, despite what people think, just before Rob and Joe came back, it was the first time ever that WGN was a self sufficient community. The original idea was that it paid for itself. So why you might think it was to far gone, it was actually reaching one of its original goals. It paid for itself, we could buy servers, not just 1 or 2 but could afford 3 or 4 a month, genuine good quality servers with a ton of slots.
Things at that stage were looking up in some respects, the real problem was we hated our server provider, wolfservers, because the service was poor and we couldn't switch and we didn't have a community binding game and we had lost that critical mass of players to keep things going in respect to server numbers.
Even now, unless you're in a clan its really hard to populate a server and keep it going. Hydra really was an anomaly and the WGN FH server only existed because we could afford a more powerful box than anyone else. It however was a badly programmed POS and lagged like it was going out of fashion no matter how much horse power was behind it.
I couldn't agree more Pepsi.
Regardless of what role you had at WGN, we all invested time which is the most valuable commodity and none of us can ever get it back.
As Engr alluded to earlier, that was then and this is now; let's move forward together.
PepsiChic
Core
I just wanted to add something, seeing as this is bringing back a lot of emotions and thoughts.
I have no issues with most of the admins/mods that used to be part of WOLF, Im friends with Duke and Engnr, they know I dont hold them accountable for what happened. There are naturally some people I hope dont come here, but I'll deal with that if/when the time comes.
So far its been nice to see familar names and friendly faces
I have no issues with most of the admins/mods that used to be part of WOLF, Im friends with Duke and Engnr, they know I dont hold them accountable for what happened. There are naturally some people I hope dont come here, but I'll deal with that if/when the time comes.
So far its been nice to see familar names and friendly faces
PepsiChic
Core
I can do that peacefully
I think this is kinda unfair to the people that spent a lot of their time trying to deal with any of the problems or drama that occurred during that time. Remember that decisions were not taken by individuals, but by the entire team of site admins, super mods and game mods. Heck, even members requesting or being nomitated for wearing WOLF-tags was voted upon by the game-admins.
I don’t think anyone wanted it to go down that way, and frankly it shouldn’t have. WOLF always has been very strict on enforcing their rules ingame, on TeamSpeak and on the forums. Members en even non-members respected that. That’s what WOLF stood for. If you broke a rule, actions were taken, if it were non-members, members or admins. Usually the consequences for members/admins breaking a rule were more harsh because they should have known better and they’re representing WOLF as a whole.
At some point rules and limits were pushed too much and trouble started. I do not recall the exact circumstances anymore why people were stripped from their admin rights, but I do remember there were problems in the past. Like mondo said, which led to a conclusion. Admins were supposed to be an example to other members. No double standards, for anyone. It may have been unfair in some people’s eyes, but that’s how it has always worked at WOLF.
The drama that occurred after this together with Rob and Joe returning the way they did was just fatal for WOLF. I still don’t understand to date they would ever believe WOLF would improve the way they handled things. I stayed around for a little bit longer because my heart lied at WOLF, hoping things would go better. But no, the magic was gone.
There are just so many different personalities, so many differing levels of opinion and sides to each and every story that I really don't see everyone seeing eye to eye on this topic.
Clearly in over 5 pages of this topic, the one thing we can all seem to agree on is that we had invested in Wolf. Some invested time, some invested money but we all invested heart and soul and got little to nothing back over the long term.
We are all now brothers and sisters, a little older, a little wiser, so lets try to bring the family back together and do what was once good about the other site; support each other and have some bl00dy fun in the process.
Clearly in over 5 pages of this topic, the one thing we can all seem to agree on is that we had invested in Wolf. Some invested time, some invested money but we all invested heart and soul and got little to nothing back over the long term.
We are all now brothers and sisters, a little older, a little wiser, so lets try to bring the family back together and do what was once good about the other site; support each other and have some bl00dy fun in the process.
Fireblade will always have a smaller penis than mine.
As someone outside of either circle, I can look somewhat objectively at the situation and give some kind of insight into both sides.
Pepsichic was never a popular choice as an admin in the first place and was viewed as favoritism on the part of Engnr. I think Pepsichic was just fine as an admin; she was a good cheerleader and could rally people to play. Another part of the problem was the circumvention of Wolf rules on the part of admins, specifically Pepsichic and Fireblade, who were already unpopular to start with, especially among the older FH admin staff. Wolf provided an environment with a set of rules that everyone followed, period. When people stepped outside of those lines, then it simply created a problem for the whole community. Yes, it was for the best for the server and the short term, but it was bad for the community as a whole, because it creates a perception of elitism. As far as the evils go, they were viewed as a group that got special privileges and such because of their closeness to admins. I never had much of a problem with them and enjoyed playing against them for the challenge. I do think their 'eliteness' went to their head a little bit, but that goes along with being good.
As I've stated before, the only reason I became an admin was to control my own gaming experience to a degree. If someone was a problem for the server, I could remove them. Sure, I administrated even if I wasn't playing a lot of the time, but that was the reason I started adminning. I enjoyed a lot of the players and got to know them as players. I'm always on the sidelines and watch, but don't get too involved.
Some probably call me a flake and that's fine, but I play these games for /my/ enjoyment. I played with you because I enjoyed it. I still try to play with you because I enjoy your company, even a doofus like Fireblade. The politics really didn't interest me much and I didn't care one way or the other, as long as I still got to enjoy my playing. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but remember, I'm selfish. You is a generic term, so don't take any of this to mean I am singling anyone out.
If you've managed this far, then you're either masochistic or way too nice, but either way, a community is formed by commonality between all players, ie. enjoyment of the game and a minimum of annoyance by the other people playing with you. We're not all going to get along all the time, and we're going to do things other people won't agree with, but if you follow the common set of rules, then everything will be alright.
As someone outside of either circle, I can look somewhat objectively at the situation and give some kind of insight into both sides.
Pepsichic was never a popular choice as an admin in the first place and was viewed as favoritism on the part of Engnr. I think Pepsichic was just fine as an admin; she was a good cheerleader and could rally people to play. Another part of the problem was the circumvention of Wolf rules on the part of admins, specifically Pepsichic and Fireblade, who were already unpopular to start with, especially among the older FH admin staff. Wolf provided an environment with a set of rules that everyone followed, period. When people stepped outside of those lines, then it simply created a problem for the whole community. Yes, it was for the best for the server and the short term, but it was bad for the community as a whole, because it creates a perception of elitism. As far as the evils go, they were viewed as a group that got special privileges and such because of their closeness to admins. I never had much of a problem with them and enjoyed playing against them for the challenge. I do think their 'eliteness' went to their head a little bit, but that goes along with being good.
As I've stated before, the only reason I became an admin was to control my own gaming experience to a degree. If someone was a problem for the server, I could remove them. Sure, I administrated even if I wasn't playing a lot of the time, but that was the reason I started adminning. I enjoyed a lot of the players and got to know them as players. I'm always on the sidelines and watch, but don't get too involved.
Some probably call me a flake and that's fine, but I play these games for /my/ enjoyment. I played with you because I enjoyed it. I still try to play with you because I enjoy your company, even a doofus like Fireblade. The politics really didn't interest me much and I didn't care one way or the other, as long as I still got to enjoy my playing. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but remember, I'm selfish. You is a generic term, so don't take any of this to mean I am singling anyone out.
If you've managed this far, then you're either masochistic or way too nice, but either way, a community is formed by commonality between all players, ie. enjoyment of the game and a minimum of annoyance by the other people playing with you. We're not all going to get along all the time, and we're going to do things other people won't agree with, but if you follow the common set of rules, then everything will be alright.
PepsiChic
Core
I guess I should of wored it better? Im not happy with how everything went, of course not, I and my group lost a lot of good friends, felt very bretrayed by certain people and majorly let down. What Im proud of is that most of the people who disagreed had the guts to say so most were instantly stomped on and they either left or got banned. But at least they got to say how they felt, a lot of which I got as emails or pms on the forum i set up after I left. A handful of people who were never happy with me being an admin did what they could to get rid of me and fireblade and you know thats ok that was their mistake. It was the flood of support I recieved afterwards that was throughougly enjoying Its a shame half those people didnt say anything publicly in fear of being ousted. but for the most part just having their emails was a huge help for me to get over the whole thing. regardless of the select few that didnt like me or that i was an admin...the majority of members did. and that in the end showed me the path that was being taken.
Im sorry it ended badly im not going to lie i miss the place. And im sorry that you all got burnt. It truely truely sucks. I know the amount of effort put in I spent a lot of time with Engnr giving my input and helping him as much as i could. I saw the hard work from you and a few other names. And for the most part the guys that kept WOLF going...werent the ones who caused me problems and I hold no grudges against them. The rest can do what fireblade said...im not going to repeat it though!
Dont worry Duke we're not arguing, and Im not going to get my panties in a twist over anything being said here. I respect everyones opnions even if i dont agree with it all. The most important thing about this thread is learning from eachother and not making the same mistakes again.
...and im not sue if being older makes us wiser lol I thought you loose more of your mind the older you get! Hell this morning I put the bread in the fridge and the milk in the cabinet.....
That's funny Pepsi because I always put the bread in the fridge but I do so on purpose, I like my bread a bit colder. Talk to my daughter, she says I put everything in the fridge and she's pr0lly right.
I'm not trying to inject much in my posts here. I've vented a few times (maybe even a few too many) for my disdain for a certain wolfer so I expect no less from anyone one else.
What I really hated about wolf at the end is it went from my Shangri la to sh1t in a blink of an eye.
All I want to interject now is that we've all grown since then and it's nice to get everything out in the open. My hope is that we all find peace from our past experiences and hopefully move forward, preferably together.
Oh and as for the wiser with age thing, it is true, we do get wiser. I know for a fact I'm wiser overall however, I tend to do a lot more inconsequential stupid things than when I was young.
Actually, maybe I'm wrong because I can't even remember what the point was I was trying to make lol.
I'm not trying to inject much in my posts here. I've vented a few times (maybe even a few too many) for my disdain for a certain wolfer so I expect no less from anyone one else.
What I really hated about wolf at the end is it went from my Shangri la to sh1t in a blink of an eye.
All I want to interject now is that we've all grown since then and it's nice to get everything out in the open. My hope is that we all find peace from our past experiences and hopefully move forward, preferably together.
Oh and as for the wiser with age thing, it is true, we do get wiser. I know for a fact I'm wiser overall however, I tend to do a lot more inconsequential stupid things than when I was young.
Actually, maybe I'm wrong because I can't even remember what the point was I was trying to make lol.
Kitlope
Hardcore
His name was Supreme Pizza! I remember him and he was the absolute tard. His avatar even had a picture of a supreme pizza. Looked real tasty.
Anyhoo, great discussion my friends. After 10 years you all still continue to amaze me. It's been great to play games and be on ts to chat it up. In the end that's what it's all about, as we all know.
mondo
Hardcore
Couple of points on that: I don't think we actually banned anyone at all during that period. We removed some admin rights but I don't think we actually went and banned anyone. Removal of admin rights should not have been a big deal, being an admin doesn't make you any better than anyone else. It just means you're there to enforce the principles of the servers operator, in that case it was WGN. It didn't make anyone a better person or gave them any kind of say in how things were actually run. That was really set in stone until that THS guy was made an admin by Rob.
Now people may have disagreed but when it comes down to it Wolf was a community based on several core principles. People may have disagreed but then it was only a matter of time until they would have disagreed with something or tried to engineer change. What I think is important here is allot people didn't want any kind of change, we liked it the way it was. We didn't want admins doing anything other than what the guidelines set (Guidelines which I actually wrote and then was agreed upon by the BF moderators, super moderators and site admins) out.
Forums get a kind of natural attrition rate when some people just don't fit in with who is there already and the kind of principles they aspire to. Looking at this from another view point is, a bunch of guys came to wolf and then left wolf because they didn't fit in with the what WGN really represented.
I'm not saying you or Fireblade did not fit in, but you're going end up in disagreement when you enter into an established situation and then try and change it when it doesn't want to be changed by the majority or it moves away from the game plan.
mondo
Hardcore
That was the d00d! To be honest after a certain point we had so many members I lose track of names. I'd love to have access to some of those forums again, especially the kicked/banned BF forums from about 2004.
hexe
Casual
Hell yeah...
and my best online gaming times ever. Not to mention our Dutch-Tripp.. you still have that big dog?
PepsiChic
Core
We didnt want/have admin rights to be better then anyone else, nor did we think we were. What we enjoyed was running and maintaining the servers. we single handedly ran both BF2 servers and the CSS server when bf2 all but died out. We loved the challenge of getting those servers populated, more so when we were told "it'll never happen". We proved to everyone and ourselves that it could be done with a lot of dedication and work, we put so much time and effort into those servers and we had them all populated up untill our admin rights were taken. Kkitt I believe was then given admin rights for those servers and they all died...no fault of his, but too much for 1 guy to do alone and nobody willing to sit on an empty server to wait for people to join. Our admin rights being taken killed BF2 and CSS for WGN.
The ONLY reason we asked for and got given admin rights by Engnr, was to help WGN servers stay populated and thats what we did. It was never appreciated all we heard were people complaining that Fireblade got admin and they didnt like that because they said he was too imature. But not once did they come and see the hard work he put into those servers. Thats what upset him the most and I dont blame him. He should NEVER have lost admin rights, he worked his a$$ off to prove himself but no-one cared because they couldnt see past his old persona.
We didnt try to "change" anything when I joined, Fireblade had been there a long time before me. All we did was taken an empty BF2 server get it populated start a second server have that populated and reopen the CSS server and populate that too.
I understand people didnt like that I was fairly new on the scene and got given admin rights, but I was willing to take on a job they couldnt be bothered to. I dont think it was right to take away our admin rights I never will think it was the right thing to do. It killed 3 perfect running servers and killed off a huge side of wolf that never recovered.
little P
Super Mod
Wow. This is fascinating to read... *Yoda voice* lot of emotions brought back up this has.
A lot went down, and it seems we have all been burnt in one way or another, this is like a Wolfgaming support group haha For my part, I loved Wolf so much I spent way too much time on there, so much so I nearly lost (my now) Wife over it.
There is one thing I regret, and that was the way I offended some people with my announcement that I was leaving, I too had been treated like crap by those that have already been mentioned, it was like I was being used because I brought our first 64 player BF1942 server to the table, and when I could no longer support it and had to take it down, the tone and attitude towards me changed in an instant. Slowly but surely I was denied access to the Site Admin section, then it just went downhill from there, even though I took a few bullets for Joe and Hobbes, anyone remember that longtime Wolfer guy that got banned from Wolf, (what was his name? really nasty piece of work, I can remember his avatar but not his name) and I was made out to be the scapegoat on his new site after I offered to try and bridge the gap and resolve the situation, had death threats and everything sent to me. Bad times.
The whole Pentarix thing was terrible to be in the middle of as we were tight. Then all the things that you guys have already mentioned, so no point mentioning them again.
The one thing I strongly feel is when Theheartsmasher got involved, that was the end of any hope of saving that place, he bled Wolf dry, and the poor bastards got sucked into his "vision". I do remember, although I was on my way out the door, being disgusted at the way Mondo, Duke, Kitlope and poor Engy (there were others, but those names stand firm in my memory) were being treated after everything they had done, and how much everyone thought of them. Including me.
So, to find you all here, alive and well, and see that photo of Knoxville and his cigar again, and that epic picture of Duke :lol: and the obvious friendships we all shared has really taken me back to that feeling I had a decade ago. Wolf... what a place it was, but here I'm getting the same vibe as I got when it was a small time place where good friends hung out, and shot each other in the face.
Peace, little p x
A lot went down, and it seems we have all been burnt in one way or another, this is like a Wolfgaming support group haha For my part, I loved Wolf so much I spent way too much time on there, so much so I nearly lost (my now) Wife over it.
There is one thing I regret, and that was the way I offended some people with my announcement that I was leaving, I too had been treated like crap by those that have already been mentioned, it was like I was being used because I brought our first 64 player BF1942 server to the table, and when I could no longer support it and had to take it down, the tone and attitude towards me changed in an instant. Slowly but surely I was denied access to the Site Admin section, then it just went downhill from there, even though I took a few bullets for Joe and Hobbes, anyone remember that longtime Wolfer guy that got banned from Wolf, (what was his name? really nasty piece of work, I can remember his avatar but not his name) and I was made out to be the scapegoat on his new site after I offered to try and bridge the gap and resolve the situation, had death threats and everything sent to me. Bad times.
The whole Pentarix thing was terrible to be in the middle of as we were tight. Then all the things that you guys have already mentioned, so no point mentioning them again.
The one thing I strongly feel is when Theheartsmasher got involved, that was the end of any hope of saving that place, he bled Wolf dry, and the poor bastards got sucked into his "vision". I do remember, although I was on my way out the door, being disgusted at the way Mondo, Duke, Kitlope and poor Engy (there were others, but those names stand firm in my memory) were being treated after everything they had done, and how much everyone thought of them. Including me.
So, to find you all here, alive and well, and see that photo of Knoxville and his cigar again, and that epic picture of Duke :lol: and the obvious friendships we all shared has really taken me back to that feeling I had a decade ago. Wolf... what a place it was, but here I'm getting the same vibe as I got when it was a small time place where good friends hung out, and shot each other in the face.
Peace, little p x
mondo
Hardcore
I was actually treated OK. Joe and Rob both asked me to stay. Joe knew I worked in the gaming industry and probably thought I could go him in roads to my employer at the time.
I don't remember that guy at all.
little P
Super Mod
It was before you were a mod on Hydra if I recall, dammit I wish I could remember his name. It's on the tip of my tongue, I can see his website, and avatar, and remember all of it, certainly remember the death threat. Oh I hate it when this happens, I think it began with an N? Never mind, the name's not important, it was a nasty business.
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