Saitek X55 Rhino problems

[Kenadian]

After roughly 7 months usage the Throttle on my Saitek X55 Rhino HOTAS has started giving me problems.

As of last night I've lost functionality of my Throttle's Upper Thumb Switch (used for horizontal/vertical thrust) and Red Button (used for Boost). Both no longer function unless the Throttle is above 50%.

It no longer qualifies are replaceable or returnable to Amazon.ca so as of last night I'm dealing with Saitek.

Hopefully the nightmares I'm reading about their support online are unfounded as I paid good money to have this thing last this short amount of time.

 

[little P]

Duke, I had exactly the same thing with my X-52 Pro. Well, almost the same thing. My boost button was fine (not sure if we use the same button, I mapped it to the big button at the top of the throttle with the slider around it). I searched everywhere for a solution but to no avail. I also contacted customer support and didn't even get a reply. I'll be interested to see how you get on as it got to be very frustrating in Elite: Dangerous trying to take off from a landing pad. Eventually I got Track IR and could remap the thrusters to the central pov hat on the stick but it never felt the same. I'm wondering if it could be a software issue, but I couldn't find any information about it.

 

[Kenadian]

I've read that a lot of the internal components are of exceptionally cheap quality. I've also read that a lot of them are not travel limited by springs or other measures which means most are just ticking time bombs waiting to collapse.

There are a lot of horror stories about Saitek's Products and Tech Support but I'm not the kind of guy that will allow that to slide. After some calculations it appears as if I've in the neighborhood of 200 hours usage with this stick at at just over $300, that's completely unacceptable.

I created a video highlight of when it happened and what I was trying to do to fix the issue: https://www.twitch.tv/bandofothers/v/57884688

You can bet all be on them every step of the way and if I don't get this taken care of asap I'm going to make as big a stink of it as humanly possible.

As it stands the only viable replacement out there that would satisfy me is the Warthog but at $600 I'd rather put off that purchase for another year or two minimum.

The other issue with the Warthog is that there is no Twist in the joystick which means rudder pedals and I just don't have room for them.

 

[Peeble]

Just recently an Elite themed X55 was posted on Reddit, comments were instantly filled with complaints about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4cq4yh/braben_twitter_the_guys_from_saiteksim_visited_us/

 

[Kenadian]

There is all kinds of bad press on the X55 with images all over the Internet. Next time around I'm going to search for issues prior to purchasing.

As far as I can see the Warthog doesn't seem to have too many bad things said about it so I'll probably end up getting it at some point or another.

 

[Doc]

I have the X-55 as well and have also experienced some odd behavior with it, especially in ED where the boost would suddenly activate while in station. I finally ended up removing the key assignment. IIRC I had it mapped to that same red thumb button on the throttle.

While also using it for the DCS Hawk, I was having issues whereby I'd lose hydraulic pressure shortly after take off and couldn't raise flaps, landing gear etc. After a few hours on the internet, come to find out the X-55 has what they call, 'micro-jitter', or fine, undetectable movements of all axis that was causing me to deplete all my hydraulic pressure on the Hawk. The fix was easy as all I had to do was create some deadzone on all axis. But still?

I have the X-65 as well. I don't know if its still sold new, but its a great HOTAS. The reason I don't use it much anymore is b/c I have my sim rig and I don't like chords going across my lap as the X-65 throttle and stick need to be connected to each other.

 

[little P]

Yes I see the micro jitter in the control panel too. I also put a little deadzone in there to fix it. This problem Duke and I have a switch becoming inoperable unless you have the throttle at a certain position (for me it's more like 25% - 30% before it starts working) is pretty bad considering the price of the equipment. I'm wondering if there is just some dodgy solder in there or something? I don't know enough about electronics to guess what's going on.

 

[Kenadian]

Yes I see the micro jitter in the control panel too. I also put a little deadzone in there to fix it. This problem Duke and I have a switch becoming inoperable unless you have the throttle at a certain position (for me it's more like 25% - 30% before it starts working) is pretty bad considering the price of the equipment. I'm wondering if there is just some dodgy solder in there or something? I don't know enough about electronics to guess what's going on.

Apparently the issue (in the X55 at least) is the wiring harness runs close to throttle gearing and is being worn by it over time.

...and/or

The wires in this harness are of a very thin gauge and under a lot of tension based stress due to throttle movement. I've actually seen pictures of this harness with most of the wiring completely snapped, others with the covers splitting near the throttle.

Either way though it's just a simple matter of poor design made worse by poor internal build quality and cheap components.

From what I've read it also seems to be an issue more common to owners of newer equipment than those who've had it for a while. Apparently early versions of the X52, X52 PRO and X55 Rhino have few issues by comparison.

Not knowing for sure I can say there is a lot of angst measured at MadCatz and reliability. Most are reporting issues at around a year mark but there are also many complaining about issues with less than 2 months usage.

One user actually purchased a Warthog simply because his friend has access to the statistical return rate of these products via their Electronics Outlet (or whatever it is).

Apparently they report an 18% DOA rate and 38% RMA rate.

This of course is unfounded and just something I ran across in my Internet browsing but what can't be argued is the apparent lack of build quality given the reasonably high price points of Saitek products.

 

[Shilka]

Sounds like a wire breach to me, where moving the throttle pushes the broken ends together just enough to make contact again...
The pictures I've seen of the bundle of wires inside the throttle are pretty bad, it's protected from the moving parts of the throttle by taping them in with regular cellotape, plust it's taped in too short anyway to do that... Pretty lousy for such a pricey product...

Edit: what Duke said...

 

[Kenadian]

I received a message from Tech Support today.

While I do wish the response time was a bit quicker I even have to admit that posting an issue Thursday night and expecting it addressed immediately isn't entirely reasonable.

It is now Tuesday morning and the first response is over 2 business days which I think is a bit of an issue but given it's just outside that window in time I still believe it to be reasonable.

The response was made in a respectful manner sensitive to my loss of use of the equipment first with recommendations made thereafter. It was well worded and reasonable so on this front I have absolutely no complaints either.

The first Tech request in my ticket is that we rule out any potential software issues so Tech Support has asked me to completely unplug all Saitek devices and remove all instances of their software on my system.

Once done perform a complete re-install based off updated drivers which I already have but will dl again from Tech Supports link.

Once re-installed, retest and report my findings.

All in all very reasonable response in a reasonable timeframe so I really cannot complain about how this is being handled at this point.

...of note: I responded in short form that I read and understood their request to rule out any software issues and thanked them for the response.

I stated I'd be following their advice to the letter and updating tonight with my findings.

My reply came within 30 minutes of theirs which clearly indicates my desire to handle the issue immediately.

 

[Justin Rebelo]

If by warthog, Ken, you're talking about the Thrustmaster product, it's sure to be of much higher quality but it also comes in at like double the price and has far fewer controls on it. That's the reason I went with the X55 when I decided to get a hotas system. These days I am a strong believer in 'buy once, cry once' and if I was buying again I would go with the steel Warthog set.

 

[Kenadian]

If by warthog, Ken, you're talking about the Thrustmaster product, it's sure to be of much higher quality but it also comes in at like double the price and has far fewer controls on it. That's the reason I went with the X55 when I decided to get a hotas system. These days I am a strong believer in 'buy once, cry once' and if I was buying again I would go with the steel Warthog set.

Yup it would be the Thrustmaster Warthog although there are well published known issues with it as well. If I were to purchase it I'd get it through a local retailer and actually pay for purchase protection on it.

Not only that but given there is no twist on the Warthog it means using pedals and unfortunately I've not found a way to map my clutch and gas pedal for rudder controls. I don't want to use gas/brake as the resistance is so drastically different it will be impossible to control hence gas/clutch.

I may have to just suck it up and buy pedals though which is annoying.

Honestly I wouldn't even consider this if it wasn't for a lack of available options where HOTAS are concerned. Logitech has one that looks kinda cheap and goofy, the CH stuff looks like it was designed by Atari in the 80's and Saitek/MadCatz have a very spotty reputation for both build quality and support.

We'll see how it goes though. I'm going to remain optimistic with Saitek for now until they prove themselves unreliable.

Even when that happens I'll tear it down and rewire or replace components (if available) as needed.

 

[little P]

Following this with interest. Could you post the reply from them please? I e-mailed them as well but I haven't had a response yet.

 

[Kenadian]

Following this with interest. Could you post the reply from them please? I e-mailed them as well but I haven't had a response yet.

To date what follows is our exact exchange minus names and what have you to protect the innocent:

Today playing Elite: Dangerous my Upper Thumb Control HAT Switch and Red Button suddenly stopped working. After following suggestions by my friends in Teamspeak it appeared as if they were completely dead.

After rebooting the Computer and messing around a bit it became apparent that partial functionality was only available with the Throttle in its forward position. Any Throttle position from 0% - 50% impeded all functionality with the Top HAT Switch and the Red Button.

...oddly enough the Bottom HAT and mouse appears unaffected.

I was Twitch Streaming at the time and have created a highlight that demonstrate the issue here:

https://www.twitch.tv/bandofothers/v/57884688

I can provide proof of purchase via my Amazon.ca Invoice if required.

I'm requesting repair or replacement of this unit as it's less than 1 year old and has only seen 2 usages/week in that time.

Please advise.

Thanks,

Ken

Hello Ken,

My apologies for the current issues you are having with your HOTAS system for I would like to help you resolve the matter. Just to get a good idea of what might be the cause of this issue I would like for you to run through a full re-installation of the drivers and software using the specific steps listed below. If your throttle switched still remain unresponsive then we will proceed with assisting you to our warranty services for your product. Reply with your results and I will continue assisting your case. Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

(Full Re-Installation Notes)

When going through a re-installation of drivers and software, you will need to completely remove your hardware from your PC and only plug it back into your computer when the installation wizard prompts you to do so. After removing your Saitek equipment, open the control panel under the uninstall a program tab to remove the Smart technology programming software, as well as any other Saitek plug in before downloading and installing your new drivers and software from the Saitek site. (Download, save, and run the drivers first) Just to be on the safe side, instead of simply overwriting the previous drivers files I would like to have you completely remove the drivers before downloading a new set from the Saitek site. To do so, please open my computer and remove the Saitek folders from the following folders. (C-Drive>Windows>Temp) Within these listed locations on your C Drive you should see a Saitek or Madcatz folder. Simply right click and delete them to remove the drivers and any additional Saitek software from your PC. If you have other Saitek or Cyborg devices view inside the folder and remove all files related to this hardware and leave the other files be. After checking your temp folder I would also recommend check your C Drive>Program Files and Program Files 86 folders for any folders that relate to your Saitek/Cyborg/Madcatz devices, for they must be deleted as well before proceeding with installing the new drivers and software. When running the new driver, be sure that you are using a 2.0 USB slot or a 2.0 USB powered hub for your Saitek hardware when plugging it into your PC. If a window pops during the drivers installation stating you already have these files saved to your PC, then you select the "yes to all" option to overwrite all previous file from your computer. After completing your installation set up, open up the Windows control panel and test the hardware of your new Saitek equipment just to make sure everything is working properly. I will list the steps below on how to pull up the Windows test page for your new equipment. Reply with your results and I will continue assisting your case.

(Windows Test Page)

Open Control Panel>Hardware and Sound>Devices and Printers
Right click on your equipment in the devices list and select game controller settings
A second tab will pop up, select the properties option
Test your equipment

(Link to Latest Drivers and Software)
http://saitek.com/uk/down/drivers.php

Hello,

Thank you for the response, very much appreciated.

It makes perfect sense to eliminate any potential software issues so I'll follow your instructions to the letter tonight and update the ticket with my findings.

Ken

 

[Kenadian]

Update to my testing, results included in message to Tech Support:

Hello,

I followed the instructions as closely as humanly possible as there were discrepancies between my install and the previous instructions provided.

My guess is due to this being my first Saitek device.

Firs off, I could not locate any instances of Smart Technology Programming Software. The only Uninstall Option in Windows Uninstall a Program Window was the X55 Rhino which I selected.

I deleted the Madcatz Folder in Temp and performed a full system scan for keywords/keyphrases Saitek, Madcatz and Smart, Smart Tech and Smart Technology just to be safe. Nothing relevant came up in these searches other than keybinding files (BINDS File) in Elite: Dangerous.

After a Computer Restart I downloaded the Drivers and Software from the link provided at http://saitek.com/uk/down/drivers.php

Installing the Drivers I waited until prompted to plug in the devices.

At no time during the install process was I prompted to overwrite files so I believe my system was clean of all previous Drivers and Software instances.

Once complete I opened as requested from Control Panel/Hardware and Sound/Devices and Printers/Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Throttle. Testing specifically for the issue reported initially my results are as follows:

1. Throttle at 0 position:

- Throttle Button lit - Button 31 continually illuminated
- Red Thumb Button - Button 1 illuminate
- Top Hat Switch - no buttons illuminate
- Mouse Switch - no buttons illuminate
- Lower Hat Switch - Buttons 24, 25, 26, and 27 illuminate

2. Throttle at 50% or mid position (approximate):

- Throttle Button lit - Button 31 continually illuminated
- Red Thumb Button - Button 1 illuminate
- Top Hat Switch - no buttons illuminate
- Mouse Switch - no buttons illuminate
- Lower Hat Switch - Buttons 24, 25, 26, and 27 illuminate

3. Throttle at 100% position:

- Throttle Button lit - Button 31 continually illuminated
- Red Thumb Button - Button 1 illuminate
- Top Hat Switch - Buttons 20, 21, 22, and 23 illuminate
- Mouse Switch - no buttons illuminate
- Lower Hat Switch - Buttons 24, 25, 26, and 27 illuminate

To be clear, I actually tested the Throttle on a different USB Hub for this round of testing. I wanted to rule out the existing USB connection as a potential source of the issue.

I then re-plugged the Throttle into the previous USB port and retested confirming the results above.

At this point in time I had not installed the Saitek X-55 Rhino Software so I went ahead and installed it and tested button functionality as seen in my Twitch Video (previously): https://www.twitch.tv/bandofothers/v/57884688?t=0h8m44s

The exact same issues were present confirming in my eyes this is indeed a Hardware failure.

More specifically this time around I can confirm loss of functionality to the Upper Hat Switch when the Throttle dips lower than the 70% mark. From 70% - Full Throttle I enjoy full control over the Upper Hat Switch but at anything less than 70% Throttle, all functionality to this switch is lost.

Please advise.

Thank you,

Ken

 

[little P]

Thanks Duke. I called them today and they are sending me some kind of test to perform. Waiting for that to arrive via e-mail. To be fair they answered the phone straight away and were very helpful, i'll update on my progress too.

 

[ElektroVodka]

Pointing Saitek to this thread might actually help sync cases here and turn the outcome into something positive.

Having 2 persons with the same joystick and partial failure after about the same amount of time isn't coincidence but rather an inconsistency in production.
Especially when "older" revisions don't seem to suffer nearly as bad.

 

[Kenadian]

Pointing Saitek to this thread might actually help sync cases here and turn the outcome into something positive.

Having 2 persons with the same joystick and partial failure after about the same amount of time isn't coincidence but rather an inconsistency in production.
Especially when "older" revisions don't seem to suffer nearly as bad.

This entire story will find its way to the Blog. There is just so much misinformation online about this very thing that I believe there needs to be some level of clarity applied to it.

Latest response from Tech Support:

Thank you for your details troubleshooting results for this has been very helpful to your case. At this point there may be an issues with the potentiometer not having enough slack in between the other wires are within the throttle. If you could please provide me with your proof of purchase in your next reply I will proceed assisting you to an RMA

This latest response was well under the 48 hour window I assign all Tech Support and clearly they are indicating it's a fault in their product.

At this point there is nothing I can complain about because they are simply doing due diligence to determine whether it's me or their product.

I will request to keep the Joystick however given I've had no issues with it. Hopefully they allow for that because with my luck I'll get a working Throttle and a fucked up Joystick.

 

[Kenadian]

To keep this moving forward I once again provide a very timely response:

The X-55 was shipped to me as of today exactly 9 months ago; purchased through Amazon.ca.

I've attached a copy of the receipt as a .jpg file, hopefully this is ok.

I'm doing this from work and all they have available it MSPaint :0/

Also, if possible I'd like to only return the Throttle and keep the Joystick as I have no complaints about the Joystick at this time.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[little P]

I wonder if they will RMA mine as it's been 18 moths... :/ Interesting though.