Steam contradicting itself?

[little P]

Steam Refunds




You can request a refund for nearly any purchase on Steam—for any reason. Maybe your PC doesn't meet the hardware requirements; maybe you bought a game by mistake; maybe you played the title for an hour and just didn't like it.
It doesn't matter. Valve will, upon request via help.steampowered.com, issue a refund for any reason, if the request is made within fourteen days of purchase, and the title has been played for less than two hours. There are more details below, but even if you fall outside of the refund rules we’ve described, you can ask for a refund anyway and we’ll take a look.

And then I get this...

Hello littlep Your purchase has been refunded by Steam.

We’ve issued the refund to your Steam wallet. The funds will be shown now as pending and will become available to spend within 7 days.

You’ve requested a significant number of refunds recently. Please keep in mind that refunds are not a method for trying out games. If we think the refund system is being misused we’ll decline to grant future refunds.

S

 

[Kenadian]

How many refunds have you asked for?

 

[tmtm]

Good god p, its not an unlimited demo service! That's something I'd expect out of Duke.

 

[little P]

Duke- Not sure, I've spent a lot of money on Steam this year, I've refunded maybe 5 or 6 titles I suppose?

tm- lol. Well, nowhere does it say there is a limit. Not anywhere in the terms and conditions is there a restriction. I don't know why but it irks me when companies do this.

STEAM: "Here try this thing (refund if you don't like the game as clearly stated by us) that we offer so we can entice you to spend more money overall"

p: *Tries thing*

STEAM: "YOU STOP TRYING THING NAOW!"







"But continue to spend a lot of money with us... please."

The end.

 

[Daunt]

Completely lame... So does it specify somewhere in their terms that they do have the ability to revoke it / deny your refund?

The above quoted text (not sure where you copied from) does say you can refund for any reason. Demoing is a reason.

 

[Kenadian]

Duke- Not sure, I've spent a lot of money on Steam this year, I've refunded maybe 5 or 6 titles I suppose?

I'm really sorry p but doesn't that sound a bit excessive to you?

I could totally understand if you've returned 1 or 2 titles on the year but expecting more than this regardless of how much you spend yearly is a bit unrealistic.

You're basically turning Steam into a game demo platform and that's not what it's intended for.

Maybe create a rule where you don't buy drunk, problem solved

 

[Daunt]

I disagree Duke. Assuming what li-uhl P quoted is their policy, it says you can return it for literally any reason at all. I'm not sure why he shouldn't be allowed to if it says that. Even so, he played the game and didn't like it, so he returned it, which it says is clearly ok. I'm not sure why repeatedly doing so is not OK unless it specifies somewhere else that there's some sort of limit.

Per their text:

[h=2]Abuse[/h]Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you. We do not consider it abuse to request a refund on a title that was purchased just before a sale and then immediately rebuying that title for the sale price.

I don't think by this definition he's abusing it. He's not getting free games. He's doing exactly what they are saying refunds are designed for. He's removing the risk of purchasing titles he won't like.

 

[Kenadian]

Maybe I'm missing something because this is common sense stuff guys.

What p is doing is asking Steam to credit him for impulse buying, nobody wants to do that. They'll do it a few times but they don't want users abusing it.

This is one of the reasons Amazon is so popular because they'll take back just about anything. I've seen countless videos from YouTubers suggesting you abuse this system because of it.

Amazon can probably afford it given all the product range they sell each with varying levels of profit margins. Their system is far more sustainable and can most likely absorb way more than a service that offers Digital Downloads only. In fact with Amazon they probably count on many not returning items simply because the Buyer quite often has to pay for return shipping which acts as a deterrent toward returning product (depending on the price of course).

Steam has no documented restrictions and it's this open door policy that easily leads to abuse.

What you need to understand is Steam adds this type of Policy knowing they're going to lose money with it. What they bank on is it increasing Consumer confidence which in turn should help drive Sales.

It's a value added service that costs the Buyer nothing but costs the Seller plenty just to maintain the service alone. Even a Digital Download is inventoried so to bring it back into inventory means both time and money they can't recuperate on top of the service alone that they already lose money on.

This is all typically factored into costs of doing business expenses but there is clear limit to what those costs are.

When they created this Refund Policy they would have spent ages finding out what the average number of returns per Customer was they could absorb daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, and annually to remain within their profit margin.

I'd expect p is well above this value which is why they contacted him.

Personally I'd have expected them to have done so at 2 or even 3 refunds.

You are right about one thing though and that is that there is no clear distinction in their nomenclature. I suppose anyone can use this to argue the point but I'd expect Steam to update that sooner or later and it's always due to a small percentage abusing the system.

I'm sorry p, I love you dearly but you're expecting too much from this Service.

 

[Daunt]

You're reading too much between the lines. Unless you're taking stuff from the long boring terms and conditions.

It says plain and simple he can refund for any reason. Period. They either need to change their wording or they can't tell him he can't continue to do what he's doing. If they have no documentation restrictions then you can't restrict them.

I'm not arguing whether or not it hurts them, or why. The way they have it worded, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to continuously try out new games and get refunds for ones he didn't like. AKA misleading / false advertisement, which I know plenty about, dealing with advertisements day in and out.

Agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Daunt]

See also Wiki False Advertising - "No Risk"

"No risk"[edit]

Advertisers frequently claim there is no risk to trying their product, when clearly there is. For example, they may charge the customer's credit card for the product, offering a full refund if not satisfied. However, the risks of such an offer are numerous. Customers may not get the product at all, they may be billed for things they did not want, they may need to call the company to authorize a return and be unable to do so, they may not be refunded the shipping and handling costs, or they may be responsible for the return shipping.

 

[Kenadian]

lol, kk :lol:

Ignore everything I've said little P, I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[little P]

If they had said there was a limit then fair enough. If not, f da police.

I've bought and kept a lot of titles this year, but yes it clearly states (that text was copied and pasted from Steam's website Daunt btw) that you can return something for any reason, and nowhere does it state there is a limit to how many times you can do it.

I'm all for playing by the rules, I'm not abusing any system I'm just doing what Steam say you can and should do if you don't like a game for whatever reason.

Remember, I have spent a lot of money with them this year as every year so it's not like I'm using Steam to play free games for up to two hours at a time...

I just think they are completely contradicting themselves here and that's just st00pid in my book. Also I wanted to warn anyone else that this may happen to them as well Community ftw.

 

[Lockard.J]

"maybe you bought a game by mistake; maybe you played the title for an hour and just didn't like it. It doesn't matter. Valve will, upon request via help.steampowered.com, issue a refund for any reason"

How much more clear can it be?

 

[Doc]

Well I read this as Steam simply trying to prevent people from abusing the system. But technically, b/c they've already stated they'll refund a game, 'for any reason', they can't turn around and say you can't demo games. If you don't want people demo'ing games, than state it in your policy. (Even though I'm sure, one cannot police such activity anyway)

P can make a legitimate complaint about it, but is it worth it? Steam has obliged his every request for a refund thus far.

Out of curiousity I read up on a few articles about this to see if others had similar complaints. I did find one person who made the same complaint. A couple of other articles I found also mentioned how some devs are not happy with Steam's refund system b/c they have actually lost sales since its implementation.

I think - if I understand it correctly, this is a good thing. Maybe it'll entice devs to release more, 'completed', less buggy games. Maybe it'll keep the quick buckers at bay. As far as I'm concerned, Steam has way too many shit games as it is. In favor of the consumer - I would agree to not abuse the system if you can help it.

 

[Lockard.J]

The devs SHOULD be upset about the refunds. They should be upset with themselves for releasing garbage. There are hundreds of games released every month. Most are not worth the money they ask and almost NO ONE releases demos. Quite often I'll torrent a game to see if it is worth a crap and buy it if I like it.

Some games like DayZ standalone have been in 'early access' for a very long time and are buggy as hell. When it seems like the devs are just taking your money and running, it makes me feel good about steam for stepping in front of them and handing it back to me.

Sure people are going to exploit it but who cares, that will be a vast minority and as Doc said, now the devs are being held responsible for releasing poopy content.

 

[ElektroVodka]

So if anyone from Valve is watching.....

 

[Kenadian]

It's quite clear by this topic that there is a large gap in what people feel individually constitutes abuse of a system. While it's true their own nomenclature suggests you can turn Steam into a game demo platform common sense would hopefully dictate that isn't the purpose for what it's intended.

Personally I have over 100 games on Steam and haven't returned 1 yet. Were there some bad decisions in there, of course there was but why should Steam pay for my stupidity?

I can see why this would piss Devs off because I'm sure many go through great pains to pull the wool over our eyes. I think that's why most Devs don't make Game Demos anymore because they offer insight into the final product and promote educated purchasing decisions.

It's gone in the complete opposite direction in some cases where companies just blitz us with eye candy rich media campaigns all the while forcing media blackouts.
It's not uncommon anymore for Gaming Critics and Reviewers to not have access to code prior to the 11th hour so timely reviews can't negatively impact sales figures.

Anyway it matters little whether or not you think this is or is not abuse of Steams Return Policy. It's clear they think it's abuse so maybe put some effort into making informed purchasing decisions rather than expecting them to continually refund you for poor ones.

 

[Daunt]

"maybe you bought a game by mistake; maybe you played the title for an hour and just didn't like it. It doesn't matter. Valve will, upon request via help.steampowered.com, issue a refund for any reason"

How much more clear can it be?

+1. Somewhere a lawyer I'm sure is smelling money. I hope this bites Steam in the ass. I have no problem with them clarifying that it isn't a method to demo games. But they should say that up front. NOT say "any reason"

 

[Kenadian]

Just to clarify it says "bought a game", not "bought several games". In the same sentence it says "the title" not "these titles" and also "didn't like it" not "didn't like them".

Steams policy in Jeffs quote clearly indicates a singular game, not plural.

I'm all for reading between the lines but the argument can be made in both directions leaning in Steams favor, at least in Jeff's quote.

 

[Daunt]

Haha true. Like I said. A lawyer is licking his chops at it tonight now somewhere