Track IR Opinion Discussion

[Kenadian]

Drop week for me in iRacing V8 League, TrackIR died.

 

[Daunt]

Re: GRAsim V8 Supercar league

Best excuse now to wait for Oculus. TrackIR is WAY too overpriced (in case you don't know my stance on that!)

 

[Kenadian]

Re: GRAsim V8 Supercar league

You can say that because you've never used TrackIR and thus have no idea what it is you're missing.

 

[Daunt]

Re: GRAsim V8 Supercar league

Ha. I don't need to buy a product to know it is overpriced. I'd have one if it was reasonably priced. It may be the Ferrari of head tracking software but if it doesn't drop down significantly in price once Oculus hits the market, it will be left in the dust, thankfully.

TrackIR is a cash grab as a whole. The PSEye camera is better in every way to the TrackIR camera, and for a fraction of the cost... and you can use it as a webcam. Their controversial encrypted and proprietary interface that they force upon game devs makes adding continuous game support and backwards compatibility a pain in the ass, unlike a ton of other open source alternatives.

They are as bad as Mac is with planned obsolesence, hence why there are 5 versions thus far. GOOD LUCK when TrackIR 6 hits the market! Because new games will only be 6 compatible, and your 4 and maybe 5 will become useless.

 

[Kenadian]

Re: GRAsim V8 Supercar league

Kyle, you have no idea what you're talking about but it still won't get you off your bloody soap box.

Your PSEye solution is a recent development only so if you're new to this market then maybe it's viable, if not then much less so.

This is your opinion only and its horrifically skewed because you've never tried it and can't possibly know what you're talking about.

Until you've experienced true 6DOF you simply can't and don't know what you're missing.

 

[Daunt]

Re: GRAsim V8 Supercar league

Ok Dookie. Whatever you say. If you think that is only my opinion than your own is quite skewed. Everything I said was perfectly valid and you didn't address any of itI except for the PSEye being a recent development. I don't need to own one to know what it is, and especially don't need to own it to know it is overpriced. Nor do I need to own one to know how they throttle devs and plan your own versions' obsolescence. But thank you.

Owning one would only tell me that it works and how it works as a product, which I'm not arguing at all... Actually I've admitted that it must work well. So please quit it with the whole "you don't own one so you can't comment" spiel. It isn't a valid counterargument and never will be.

 

[Kenadian]

Re: GRAsim V8 Supercar league

Is this a good day for trolling or am I just imagining things?

You don't think I considered virtually everything you said before buying in the first place Kyle?

...but just to humor you I'll address your comments:

1. Dev throttling, did you just make that up? Hmmn, wouldn't be anything similar to gains/losses you get when purchasing a certain brand of video card or gaming device for that matter?
2. Backward/forward compatibility: they all work however newer versions of Track IR will have more features. It is the same in everything you buy so there should be no surprises there.
3. Controversial encrypted proprietary interface: just lol. Seriously do you expect them to just hand this out to anyone? As for it being controversial please show me some data on that because I've owned this thing for a number of years now and have yet to hear that bit of news.

You've made your point that you don't like it and think it's worthless but at least exercise some cooth in not denouncing me and other users for deciding to use it.

 

[Daunt]

Re: GRAsim V8 Supercar league

So this is what trolling is? Gee I'd have never guessed.

I've never said it was worthless and now you're putting words in my mouth. I never denounced you and others for using it, either. My MAIN point is that it is way overpriced for what it is. You acted like I'm not allowed to speak my opinion because I simply haven't spent over 100 bucks for it which is incredibly close minded and completely untrue. I don't need the product to know about it, nor to know about their company. That is mainly what set me off... if you want to hold to that stupid approach go ahead. If I had said the quality of the camera was crappy or that it stuttered a lot, that's another matter.

1 and 3 are completely related... and yes having an Open and usable SDK is an extremely common thing to do, sorry you did not know this. Look at Kinect, Logitech Gamepanel, Xsim, 3dconnexion. All open SDKs with strong communities. So it is not just the fact that they have an open SDK, but something usable for the game devs and community at large. Of course they are not giving it out for free....

and #2 makes me laugh... more features... like more than 2dof. And try explaining why you need to buy a license to get v4 software with a Trackir 3 to get 6dof? And why it is excluded entirely from v5 software? So basically trackir 3 has no problem using v4 software, but they are forcing you to pay for a license to get 6dof because they can.

 

[Kenadian]

Re: GRAsim V8 Supercar league

Some companies have SDK's and they represent a very small percentage of the market. The only companies that release SDK's are the ones who feel it will be used to enhance their product or brand, everyone else keeps their software locked up.

As for your reactions to my comments they too are laughable but whatever. If you want to see what the differences are between versions you can see here:

https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/trackir-product-comparison.html

There's even a video on resolution comparison here:

https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/products/trackir5/comparison/?KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&width=810&height=324&modal=true

Where is it stated in this topic that you can't share your opinion? Seriously think about it; I setup a Web Community for people not to talk?

I've responded wholeheartedly to what I believe is a narrow minded approach to something you've no experience with, that's it. You're essentially reviewing something you've never used so please forgive me if I want people to see its merits especially as a long time user.

Just know I've heard your impressions of Track IR but I'll continue to disagree. I've purchased it, used it for years and have come to appreciate and rely on it.

 

[Daunt]

Re: GRAsim V8 Supercar league

Very small percentage? What percentage is that and where is that from? I just listed a number of major competitors to trackir and they're all open sdks. Even oculus has a budding community thanks to its SDK.

Naturalpoint's only interest is a monopoly. You can't even explain why you need a license to upgrade trackir 3 to get the 6dof with v4. Their "new" UI interface they claimed to have designed to create a better experience in v4 was the reason they apparently had to drop trackir 1 & 2, yet with OptiTrack, you can get it to work on v4 with 6dof. In fact, they claimed to not be able to "bring back to old interface to support it" yet trackirfixer bypasses the encyrption and uses the old interface...

And as I said, I called your approach narrowminded because you think I need to experience a product even to make a valid comment on their company, brand, and how the function, let alone the product itself. If you think that is a "review", or at any point you thought I reviewed trackir, then please, go read an actual review. Even just comparing specs I can see the Trackir is underpowered compared to CHEAPER alternatives, and I don't need to buy it to point it out.

I've said multiple times, and once already in this thread, I'm sure it works great as a product, I've never dogged its actual functionality. Continue to use it, it is your experience.

 

[Kenadian]

Why do I need to explain the upgrading or pricing structure of Natural Point, the question is patently ridiculous?

Natural Point being interested in a Monopoly isn't an answer because so is Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, NVIDIA, Adobe, Google, Apple, and pretty much everyone else. When competition comes then they are all forced to re-evaluate their goals but until such time nada.

As for your SDK argument it is geared toward head tracking, my comment is about software in general.

 

[Daunt]

You don't need to explain. Just other comments against Naturalpoint that I've made. I'm sure every company is interested in a monopoly for obvious reasons, its just how they go about it. We all know how Comcast is. That's a great example of how a company should NOT act.

I guess we'll never agree on the fact that it's worth what they currently charge for it. I KNOW I've never actually tried it, but there are some things that I'd not pay for after a certain point regardless, and there it just gets to be relative, based on people's money preferences (for lack of a better word I can't think of currently). Personally, even if it were the best head tracking software on the planet, never to be outdone, I can't imagine spending more than 75 bucks on it.. even when I'd use it for just about every game I play. Thankfully there are alternatives, though.

So what are you going to do with yours then? Pretty sure you said you weren't interested in an oculus.

 

[Kenadian]

I really don't know what to do to be honest because even though I'm a stout supporter of this Hardware I have to admit I've never expected failure of the unit itself.

I can say so far Natural Point has very good Tech Support because they answer promptly and have taken the time to actually understand what my issue is. It's very rare for a Hardware Manufacturer to say the problem may be hardware related.

To this day I've only ever experienced 3 Companies over the course of my gaming history who admitted Hardware could be at fault:

• ASUS
• Logitech
• Natural Point

Of all the above Logitech is the clear winner as they didn't even bother to take it far, they just couriered me a new controller never asking for the existing back.

...everyone else is pretty quick to ignore your query and deflect blame toward the end user.

Unfortunately for me, it's too late to try anything else because the way I game is shaped around this experience.

What none of these companies tell you is that you can become reliant on these solutions so much so that gaming changes forever. Am I the only one who remembers the days when you'd say "pfft, I'll never pay over $300 for a new video card!"

I've used TrackIR for many years now in flights sims, ArmA, driving games, etc., and it's so ingrained in me I have trouble functioning without it.

I know it sounds ridiculous but now that I can't see where I want to see in iRacing it's made me exceptionally nervous and I can't drive the way I want. I know I won't even be able to play Elite: Dangerous or ArmA without it.

I don't want to purchase it again because you are right in that it is a pricey alternative to head tracking. Having said that, I know it inside and out now, have profiles built for it and can easily be up and running in minutes if I repurchase it.

I can't say the same for Oculus or GTEye.

For me Oculus isn't even truly on the table though because I think it will be many years before it's a truly viable alternative for everyone.

After a long session of gaming my eyes are already burning and my neck is stiff which I think would only be compounded given the added weight of Oculus and the fact I wear glasses.

 

[Kenadian]

You don't need to explain. Just other comments against Naturalpoint that I've made. I'm sure every company is interested in a monopoly for obvious reasons, its just how they go about it. We all know how Comcast is. That's a great example of how a company should NOT act.

Just so you know I could never argue this fact given I'm Canadian and anyone here whose gamed with me online knows my issues inside and out.

 

[ElektroVodka]

Lighten up lads and don't act all butthurt

 

[Daunt]

Where did you get my pic Quick???

 

[Daunt]

Honestly though, I think for sure in 2 years, I can see Oculus or other VR otherwise dominating the market. Maybe not right away, maybe it will take a bit longer, but I can see it has massive potential. I don't see it as one of those segway-type techs (lol)

I haven't actually tried Oculus either, but short of it just not plain working correctly, I can't see why I'd not love it. I can see how it would be ingrained in every game you play, head tracking in general has massive upsides...

That said, I have to imagine, to someone NOT ingrained with Trackir, that Oculus will be easier / more natural. I'd have a hard time getting used to moving my head but not too much because my eyes are still remaining fixed in the same spot. I have to find somewhere around here that has an SDK 2 to try.

 

[mondo]

TrackIR isn't open source because it's been developed, originally for use with people with severe disabilities. The technology is what makes it the best head tracking available. No other specialist company in that field has used it for games.

Honestly, if you've not tried, do not knock. While it's not as immersive as Occulus, if you play something which requires you to look at a keyboard for example, TrackIR wins out every time. If you don't want to stick your hand in a cup of tea while trying to pick it up during a game, it wins every time. It's pretty much an essential for flight sims these days, especially DCS where your HOTAS is almost entirely mapped with no spare buttons for view movement. That and spare screens contain maps, checklists etc. Occulus is good for War Thunder or an equally simple pseudo sim.

It's not unnatural to use TrackIR either, it's actually very easy to get into.

 

[Kenadian]

Where did you get my pic Quick???

It's a selfie.

 

[Kenadian]

Honestly though, I think for sure in 2 years, I can see Oculus or other VR otherwise dominating the market. Maybe not right away, maybe it will take a bit longer, but I can see it has massive potential. I don't see it as one of those segway-type techs (lol)

I haven't actually tried Oculus either, but short of it just not plain working correctly, I can't see why I'd not love it. I can see how it would be ingrained in every game you play, head tracking in general has massive upsides...

That said, I have to imagine, to someone NOT ingrained with Trackir, that Oculus will be easier / more natural. I'd have a hard time getting used to moving my head but not too much because my eyes are still remaining fixed in the same spot. I have to find somewhere around here that has an SDK 2 to try.

This is what Tony Mino was having issues with until I gave him my Profiles.

I have the sensitivity cranked up but done in such a way that it's not linear and highly exaggerated with even a slight change of direction.

This is what I love about TrackIR the most, it's just so configurable. It's so easy to tune for each and every title most of which have completely differing requirements to satisfy.

My iRacing Profile (for example) is vastly different from my ArmA profile both of which are drastically different from my Elite: Dangerous Profile.

TrackIR isn't open source because it's been developed, originally for use with people with severe disabilities. The technology is what makes it the best head tracking available. No other specialist company in that field has used it for games.

Honestly, if you've not tried, do not knock. While it's not as immersive as Occulus, if you play something which requires you to look at a keyboard for example, TrackIR wins out every time. If you don't want to stick your hand in a cup of tea while trying to pick it up during a game, it wins every time. It's pretty much an essential for flight sims these days, especially DCS where your HOTAS is almost entirely mapped with no spare buttons for view movement. That and spare screens contain maps, checklists etc. Occulus is good for War Thunder or an equally simple pseudo sim.

It's not unnatural to use TrackIR either, it's actually very easy to get into.

Actually flying with you in IL2 Forgotten Battles is what got me into TrackIR.

I just thought I'd share that little tidbit because it helped me immediately have a chance instead of always being cannon fodder.

It's also the reason I was able to step away from the more maneuverable LA to increasingly difficult planes to fly. Before TrackIR I needed every little thing I could think of to be competitive, once I got it things changed drastically for the better.