Peeble
Core
http://www.iracing.com/iracingnews/iracing-news/iracing-announces-licensing-agreement-with-mercedes-benz
ITS HAPPENING!
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iRacing announces Mercedes AMG GT3
- Thread starter Peeble
- Start date
Noodleguitar
Admin
Awesome news! This is exactly what I hoped for. Really hope they get the sound somewhat right, as this car sounds incredible.
Daunt
MLG Pro
That is not the real GT3 Ford. So it really doesn't make sense that they even use it. Same kinda thing with the RUF.
And again, DX upgrades is all about optimizations, maybe even more so than actual graphics capabilities / how it looks. Why are we only able to handle 60 cars MAX on a track? There are limitations with how much power currently a car requires, and with DX11 optimization, these power limitations will be lower. Mainly with number of cars I'd imagine the issue is memory. All the cars need to be held in memory, and if each car (x5) costs 100MB of memory or whatever, you are limited... so if they only cost 70MB after optimization, you can fit more obviously.
If you haven't seen this video yet, check it out: It is exactly what I mean... even though its dx11 - dx12, it is optimization, not really raw processing or anything else. Which is clearly what iRacing needs, seeing as our graphics are NOT straining, its the optimization that needs addressing.
[video=youtube;sc4dsiq-I7g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4dsiq-I7g[/video]
And again, DX upgrades is all about optimizations, maybe even more so than actual graphics capabilities / how it looks. Why are we only able to handle 60 cars MAX on a track? There are limitations with how much power currently a car requires, and with DX11 optimization, these power limitations will be lower. Mainly with number of cars I'd imagine the issue is memory. All the cars need to be held in memory, and if each car (x5) costs 100MB of memory or whatever, you are limited... so if they only cost 70MB after optimization, you can fit more obviously.
If you haven't seen this video yet, check it out: It is exactly what I mean... even though its dx11 - dx12, it is optimization, not really raw processing or anything else. Which is clearly what iRacing needs, seeing as our graphics are NOT straining, its the optimization that needs addressing.
[video=youtube;sc4dsiq-I7g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4dsiq-I7g[/video]
I'm looking forward to DX11 compatibility just like the next guy but I don't think it has anything to do with how many cars we'll see on track.
I'm not even sure if it will help speed up the process of anything other than game performance in Windows because it won't help OSX or Linux users at all.
I really wish I could remember but somebody gave a viable explanation as to why the 5 vehicle limit but I can't remember who for the life of me. Regardless, it's likely an arbitrary value set by iRacing that may or may not be easy to adjust; it's really too hard to know for sure.
You have to remember that iRacing is a database driven program that tracks everything every single driver does. Every time we grid up every move we make is being recorded in a database somewhere which is astounding given the fact over 1 billion laps have been turned to date.
Adding another car could be as simple as changing a few lines of code in the game but will likely ripple through the website and of course the database.
I'd like to think that iRacing is likely working on adjusting the value higher but given their track record of making changes that seem to infuriate half the community I doubt they are lol.
I'm not even sure if it will help speed up the process of anything other than game performance in Windows because it won't help OSX or Linux users at all.
I really wish I could remember but somebody gave a viable explanation as to why the 5 vehicle limit but I can't remember who for the life of me. Regardless, it's likely an arbitrary value set by iRacing that may or may not be easy to adjust; it's really too hard to know for sure.
You have to remember that iRacing is a database driven program that tracks everything every single driver does. Every time we grid up every move we make is being recorded in a database somewhere which is astounding given the fact over 1 billion laps have been turned to date.
Adding another car could be as simple as changing a few lines of code in the game but will likely ripple through the website and of course the database.
I'd like to think that iRacing is likely working on adjusting the value higher but given their track record of making changes that seem to infuriate half the community I doubt they are lol.
Daunt
MLG Pro
I know they've tested 6 or even 7 cars for a fact. I believe it was too intensive:
I found this... though not definitive:
I found this... though not definitive:
Likely, it is very possible to optimize without upgrading DX version. I'm saying an upgrade will more than likely speed up the process and make optimization easier.Johnathan Butel said:
Oh my, I wish there was a bit more detail put into that quote you found because it can be read that the graphics engine isn't up to the task.
If that's the case then they need to replace it just as they do the sound engine, no small task.
If they were to take on that project I'd hope they aim for DX12 because it will take years and a sizable team to make it happen.
If that's the case then they need to replace it just as they do the sound engine, no small task.
If they were to take on that project I'd hope they aim for DX12 because it will take years and a sizable team to make it happen.
Noodleguitar
Admin
I think the car number limit has more to do with GPU/RAM memory limitations and maybe it affects the CPU load slightly as well.
More types of cars means more models to be loaded into in RAM and the video card memory. One of their optimizations is that they use multiple levels of detail for each car based on how far away it is from your car, so they probably have at least 3 models of each car in the GPU memory.
On the CPU side it could mean more strain on the physics engine. The cars have different shapes, so obstacle detection might be a bit slower. Although I assume that most of the physics computation is done on the client side, only for your car, the result of this (car position, damage etc.) is just transmitted over the network.
If the above is true then the only reason I can think of to have a maximum of 5 cars is that lower end PCs would struggle with higher amounts.
Thinking about it, I think would you said Duke makes a lot of sense too. The way they handle race results seems to indicate it possibly can't deal with over 5 classes unless drastic changes are made to the database and result page generation.
More types of cars means more models to be loaded into in RAM and the video card memory. One of their optimizations is that they use multiple levels of detail for each car based on how far away it is from your car, so they probably have at least 3 models of each car in the GPU memory.
On the CPU side it could mean more strain on the physics engine. The cars have different shapes, so obstacle detection might be a bit slower. Although I assume that most of the physics computation is done on the client side, only for your car, the result of this (car position, damage etc.) is just transmitted over the network.
If the above is true then the only reason I can think of to have a maximum of 5 cars is that lower end PCs would struggle with higher amounts.
Thinking about it, I think would you said Duke makes a lot of sense too. The way they handle race results seems to indicate it possibly can't deal with over 5 classes unless drastic changes are made to the database and result page generation.
Daunt
MLG Pro
It could be the graphics engine is not up to the task. I can't say that an engine rewrite isn't necessary. But who knows.
I literally said that exact same thing regarding memory limitations Noel:
I know for a fact you're right about the 3 different models they make. They detailed that on their video of how they made the BMW from start (collecting data, pictures, scans etc) to finish. The scan they get is WAY to intensive for any desk computer to use, so from the CAD scan, they make three lower and progressively lower poly models.
If you've never seen that video, check it out. I'd be happy to link it.
I literally said that exact same thing regarding memory limitations Noel:
Daunt said:
I know for a fact you're right about the 3 different models they make. They detailed that on their video of how they made the BMW from start (collecting data, pictures, scans etc) to finish. The scan they get is WAY to intensive for any desk computer to use, so from the CAD scan, they make three lower and progressively lower poly models.
If you've never seen that video, check it out. I'd be happy to link it.
I think you're right Noel in your assessment of how the game probably overloads hardware but that's probably more indicative to a graphics engine limitation more than hardware based limitations.
I read a post on some obscure forum that suggested iRacing currently only runs on two cores but cannot confirm. Assuming this is the case then there is a lot of room for them to work with as presently everyone is running quads or higher I'd wager.
Also, this engine is old and probably not even properly optimized for dual core so my guess is one core is doing pretty much all the work.
From what I can see, there has been nothing done graphically since I joined with the exception of updated pylons, pretty much everything is the same otherwise. If you stretch this level of progression from my 1.5 years to release in 2008 it strongly suggests we're looking at a game that hasn't changed much visually since release.
The varying poly counts of 3 or more models/car at different view distances is standard procedure I'd wager in most games. I'm sure they have to keep all loaded in memory but in this day and age our OS's demand 8+ GB of memory so there should be ample headroom to grow in.
Of course I'm not a game developer but if I were to guess, iRacing simply needs to replace or drastically update their graphics engine.
We're really just talking about a handful of high poly 3d rendered models with some damage and physics calculations but that's not a lot to expect in 2015. This holds especially true given the cardboard buildings, low texture tracks and lego trees, not to mention no AI.
Even our birds are animated gifs (or so they appear lol).
I personally want them to address the graphics because its a must if they're to remain viable given the subscription service and flood of other racing games as of late.
I just don't think it can be done on this engine.
Lastly, I've read that this game is very CPU intensive which is probably true but I know it taxes your graphics card heavily too and it's not well optimized there either.
SLI flat out doesn't work and had to be disabled and even then I'd jump between 60 - 120 FPS. Even at high FPS (constant 50 - 80+) I'd see stuttering which never made sense.
Now on a single 970 I've jumped to buttery smooth 120+ FPS even when recording.
I read a post on some obscure forum that suggested iRacing currently only runs on two cores but cannot confirm. Assuming this is the case then there is a lot of room for them to work with as presently everyone is running quads or higher I'd wager.
Also, this engine is old and probably not even properly optimized for dual core so my guess is one core is doing pretty much all the work.
From what I can see, there has been nothing done graphically since I joined with the exception of updated pylons, pretty much everything is the same otherwise. If you stretch this level of progression from my 1.5 years to release in 2008 it strongly suggests we're looking at a game that hasn't changed much visually since release.
The varying poly counts of 3 or more models/car at different view distances is standard procedure I'd wager in most games. I'm sure they have to keep all loaded in memory but in this day and age our OS's demand 8+ GB of memory so there should be ample headroom to grow in.
Of course I'm not a game developer but if I were to guess, iRacing simply needs to replace or drastically update their graphics engine.
We're really just talking about a handful of high poly 3d rendered models with some damage and physics calculations but that's not a lot to expect in 2015. This holds especially true given the cardboard buildings, low texture tracks and lego trees, not to mention no AI.
Even our birds are animated gifs (or so they appear lol).
I personally want them to address the graphics because its a must if they're to remain viable given the subscription service and flood of other racing games as of late.
I just don't think it can be done on this engine.
Lastly, I've read that this game is very CPU intensive which is probably true but I know it taxes your graphics card heavily too and it's not well optimized there either.
SLI flat out doesn't work and had to be disabled and even then I'd jump between 60 - 120 FPS. Even at high FPS (constant 50 - 80+) I'd see stuttering which never made sense.
Now on a single 970 I've jumped to buttery smooth 120+ FPS even when recording.
Daunt
MLG Pro
I'd say it is related, as another car directly relates to how iRacing will handle 6 cars, or what they will do.
I've never said DirectX11 is the be-all-end-all thing for iRacing. It certainly is not. I said it will help with optimizations... whether with future implementation (they will be able to optimize more, faster) or just making things better now. We all acknowledge the game needs a VAST amount of it, and/or engine rewrites. It is certainly lagging behind in a genre where it doesn't really hold a monopoly anymore, if you could call it that.
I've never said DirectX11 is the be-all-end-all thing for iRacing. It certainly is not. I said it will help with optimizations... whether with future implementation (they will be able to optimize more, faster) or just making things better now. We all acknowledge the game needs a VAST amount of it, and/or engine rewrites. It is certainly lagging behind in a genre where it doesn't really hold a monopoly anymore, if you could call it that.
I know what you said Kyle and it may help to some extent but how much there's no way to know.
Again, DX11 only works on Windows systems. Very much like NVIDIA PhysX it could mean even more headaches when trying to keep OSX and Linux users up to speed.
If you listen to what Valve has to say they think that OpenGL is faster than DirectX even on Windows based systems.
Apparently NVIDIA, Intel and AMD agree: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/opengl-gdc2014/
Again, DX11 only works on Windows systems. Very much like NVIDIA PhysX it could mean even more headaches when trying to keep OSX and Linux users up to speed.
If you listen to what Valve has to say they think that OpenGL is faster than DirectX even on Windows based systems.
Apparently NVIDIA, Intel and AMD agree: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/opengl-gdc2014/
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ROAR: LMP3, GT4, Touring
~ Jan 9 - 10
Daytona 24: GTP, LMP2, GT3
~ Jan 16 - 18
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~ Feb 20 - 22
Sebring 12: GTP, LMP2, GT3
~ Mar 27 - 29
~ Jan 9 - 10
Daytona 24: GTP, LMP2, GT3
~ Jan 16 - 18
Bathurst 12: GT3
~ Feb 20 - 22
Sebring 12: GTP, LMP2, GT3
~ Mar 27 - 29